13 Mar 07
Originally posted by PBE6It's not difficult to play out at all. With the pawn on f7, the white king cannot be forced to get in front of his pawn (he goes to the corner so that Qxf7= stalemate), making it impossible for black to create tempi for king moves.
According to the Shredder endgame database, this is a draw. It may be difficult to play out OTB without blundering, but that doesn't mean it's a won game for black.
Handy dandy endgame database with nifty graphical user interface:
http://www.shredderchess.com/online-chess/online-databases/endgame-database.html
13 Mar 07
1 edit
Originally posted by Mephisto2yes, exactly! ... the point being it demonstrates the theoretical draw with Q vs bishop pawn on second back rank. in the original position, with all pieces a file left or right would be completely winning. queen can force white king to block pawn, and then bring king a step closer. important principle of endgame theory.
It's not difficult to play out at all. With the pawn on f7, the white king cannot be forced to get in front of his pawn (he goes to the corner so that Qxf7= stalemate), making it impossible for black to create tempi for king moves.
well done all. but nil points for relying on endgame database! 🙂
13 Mar 07
Originally posted by pootstickHey! I didn't rely on it while trying to solve the puzzle...well, a little bit at the end. I guess I did, fair enough. But I do find it quite illuminating to have some sort of authority on the matter agree with the proposed solution. It takes away all the niggling doubts.
well done all. but nil points for relying on endgame database! 🙂
13 Mar 07
mmm, ok then.. half marks 😉 i find that if you learn these theoretics it makes calculations otb a world easier. it will save you the time it takes to logically consider a 10move plus continuation, and help yuou make crucial decisions like whether to accept an exchange in pos'ns such as this!
18 Mar 07
Originally posted by pootstickI think it is possible to mate, but it takes around a dozen moves or so.
almost, but 2... Kc4 would be unnecesary tempo sacrificing for black. 2. ...d4 seems best. white cannot give chase, and leads to this:
[fen]8/8/5PK1/2k5/8/8/8/3q4 w - - 0 8[/fen]
white's move.
19 Mar 07
Originally posted by Mephisto2There was a game like this at the tournament I was this weekend, and the side with the queen one. Although the pawn positioning was different. That is usually the deciding factor right?
No way. White plays f7 and there is no chance black can ever make progress. Check your basic chess endings please.
I know very little endgame and have just gotten into studying it, so please forgive the beginner's question.
19 Mar 07
1 edit
Originally posted by GalaxyShieldThere has been another thread on this. With the pawn on the seventh/second row, protected by the king, it is won for the queen if the pawn is on the b, d, e and g files, and draw on the other files, the latter because of the stalemate pattern with the king in the corner. Therefor, the king cannot be forced to go in front of its pawn but goes to h8 (in this example here) where Qxf7 would stalemate. Hence, the queen cannot force an extra tempo for her king to make a step closer.
There was a game like this at the tournament I was this weekend, and the side with the queen one. Although the pawn positioning was different. That is usually the deciding factor right?
I know very little endgame and have just gotten into studying it, so please forgive the beginner's question.