06 Nov 09
If you don't want to understand what I mean you won't anyway no matter what I do or say. But I've already been shown games where a 1500 player make more than ten consecutive engine top choices in a not linear position. Then imagine a player who actually knows how to play chess, I know it's unheard of on RHP, but trust me it can happen. I don't know how good your imagination is, though.
Also a large bunch of even the weaker players make stupid moves right in or after their opening because they scanned it with an engine once before and the prog said it was cool.
And then there's also the games where one can be human with 100% match up while in other games a cheater is obvious even at 70%. It's not set into stone and with statistics you can't say anything else, but it's unlikely. That means everything still has a positive probability. You can make a sound sacrifice the program will only see ten moves later. The first move will be weak according to the engine but the following nine could be all #1 choices if you made the right plans. That already gives 90% match up. And so on and on.
The only viable argument would be by a really good player who also has a lot of experience with engines. Most of the people who act like they are pros on the topic here don't even have the second one, let alone the first. And those who think they have the first... No comment.
06 Nov 09
Originally posted by Nowakowski
I have to say I can't see how using the two rooks position gives any insight in the assessment of the original because, in the position given with black to move, as in the original, 1...cxd4 seems to winning a clear pawn for black as well as gaining control of the c file. 2.Rb5 Rxc4 looks winning for black to me.
06 Nov 09
Originally posted by Quiet InterludeLOL.
[fen]2rr2k1/p4pp1/1p1pp3/2p4p/2PPP3/2P2PP1/P6P/1R3RK1 b - - 1 1 [/fen]
I have to say I can't see how using the two rooks position gives any insight in the assessment of the original because, in the position given with black to move, as in the original, 1...cxd4 seems to winning a clear pawn for black as well as gaining control of the c file. 2.Rb5 Rxc4 looks winning for black to me.
Nothing like a little concrete analysis to deflate vague positional musings! Gotta love it.
06 Nov 09
Originally posted by Mariska Angelajust search the forum for any of the billion "how do you know someone's cheating", and you'll find that each of your points and many others have been analyzed to death over and over and over again. you simply have no idea how many times the rest of us have had this same discussion with newcomers like you.
If you don't want to understand what I mean you won't anyway no matter what I do or say. But I've already been shown games where a 1500 player make more than ten consecutive engine top choices in a not linear position. Then imagine a player who actually knows how to play chess, I know it's unheard of on RHP, but trust me it can happen. I don't know ho ...[text shortened]... econd one, let alone the first. And those who think they have the first... No comment.
somebody should make a FAQ about this...
07 Nov 09
Originally posted by wormwoodThread 114715
just search the forum for any of the billion "how do you know someone's cheating", and you'll find that each of your points and many others have been analyzed to death over and over and over again. you simply have no idea how many times the rest of us have had this same discussion with newcomers like you.
somebody should make a FAQ about this...
07 Nov 09
1 edit
Originally posted by Quiet InterludeI wasn't assesing there value based on placement in the position, instead, on mobility.
[fen]2rr2k1/p4pp1/1p1pp3/2p4p/2PPP3/2P2PP1/P6P/1R3RK1 b - - 1 1 [/fen]
I have to say I can't see how using the two rooks position gives any insight in the assessment of the original because, in the position given with black to move, as in the original, 1...cxd4 seems to winning a clear pawn for black as well as gaining control of the c file. 2.Rb5 Rxc4 looks winning for black to me.
The pawn is protected by two minor pieces in the position. The final position is only
to help visualize the advantage (if it is indeed a true "advantage"😉.
As far as concrete analysis...concretely show me an advantage in this position, for either
side...and I'll be shocked.
-GIN
Originally posted by NowakowskiWhy consider a king and pawn ending in this position? There are no open files for rooks to have been exchanged and thus it tells you nothing more than a back rank mate is unlikely. I had thought that considering positions "statically" in this kind of way had largely been debunked in modern textbooks. The idea that white is going to sit around waiting for an endgame is faintly ridiculous and I really can't see how this is supposed to be a means by which to out think an engine strategically.
The pawn is protected by two minor pieces in the position. The final position is only
to help visualize the advantage (if it is indeed a true "advantage"😉
By means of the attack on black's a pawn white may claim a "slight pull" by way of initiative. Analysis of that will indicate whether it may evaporate or not. It thus becomes a "winning chance". One of many? I don't really know. In considering the defence of the a pawn in his next move black may look at his pressure against e4 for example and even muse about a sacrifice there...or he may look for ways to attack the doubled pawn.S/he may well consider that these constitute winning chances and thus you could say that the position contains "chances for both sides" and analysis along one of these ideas or another will start to determine the truth of this tabiya. It may take many games with analysis by many players to arrive at a definitive assessment that then becomes theory as with many such positions in the past. So the engines say =. So what.
Edits: spellings
11 Nov 09
Originally posted by misterrigel70.Bh1. hahahah! now that's downright rude! 😀
Okay, it's done. Weyerstrass lost. Now what do we talk about? 😛
I wonder if you can score a 3c by offending your opponent with a move like that. I mean, that move is a flip of the finger if I ever saw one. "look, I can just self-trap this bishop, and there's nothing you can do about it." 🙂
well, I suppose it's possible they were chatting in the game log. I know I have a couple of games with ridiculous last moves because of that.
11 Nov 09
1 edit
Originally posted by wormwoodafter 70.Bh1 blacks counter play seems to be non existent, a brilliant move. i wonder how painfully our friend wyerstrass took it and how euphorically woodworm celebrated!
70.Bh1. hahahah! now that's downright rude! 😀
I wonder if you can score a 3c by offending your opponent with a move like that. I mean, that move is a flip of the finger if I ever saw one. "look, I can just self-trap this bishop, and there's nothing you can do about it." 🙂
well, I suppose it's possible they were chatting in the game log. I know I have a couple of games with ridiculous last moves because of that.