Na5 only goes to two squares b3 and c4. Ne5 also goes to c4. That leaves only Nxb3. I have played that before. When white recaptures it is actually harder than before to crack open white's position.
11. ... a5 is interesting but probably won't work either. I imagine white can just lodge a piece on b5 and stop most of black's attack. If not, black still has to take some time to get in b5 or threaten a4. I haven't actually cracked a book for this, so I could be mistaken.
11...Ne5 is the book move. I would expect the line 11...Ne5 12. Kb1! to happen, given the immense popularity of this line lately at the top levels, and it certainly poses Black the most difficult problems. Just to give people an idea of what's happening, here's White's idea - White takes one move out to simply improve his position a little bit. In general, Black reacts on the 12th move to whatever White does, for instance 12. h4 h5! (In my opinion best) or 12. Bh6 Bxh6 13. Qxh6 Rxc3! 14. bxc3 a5! with counterplay. That said, Black runs into some slight problems if he's forced to move here. One try is just the simply 12...Nc4, and after 13. Bxc4 Rxc4 14. g4! , white is thought to have a really solid advantage here. For instance, 14...b5!? 15. b3! Rc8 16. Ndxb5 is good for White, 14...Qa5 15. Nb3 Qa6 16. e5! is good for White, and 14...Qc7 15. g5 Nh5 16. Nd5 Qd8 17. Ne2! is good for White. I'm leaving one variation out, and I'll return to it a bit later.
Another try for Black after 12. Kb1 is 12...Re8!? Black's main points to playing this move are:
1. White played a waiting move that improved his position, why can't I? The points are:
2. Black might now be able to play ...Bh8 in response to Bh6 at some point.
3. Occasionally Black runs into problems with a weak e-pawn, so ...Re8 fixes that as well.
4. ...Qa5 might now be possible, since after the old Nd5 Qxd2 Nxe7+ followed by Rxd2 trick doesn't work.
5. Occasionally White tries a plan based on f4 and e5, when he may take on f6 or d6. This opens the e-file where a rook is already placed.
That said, the position after 12...Re8 13. h4 h5 14. Bh6 Nc4 15. Bxc4 Rxc4 16. Bxg7 Kxg7 17. Nd5! is pretty prospectless for Black. For instance, the main line generally continues 17...e5 18. Nxf6 Qxf6 19. Nb3 Re6 20. Qa5 Ra5 21. Qc7! , and Black has to suffer a little bit. In my opinion, 19. Ne2!? is quite good, planning to reroute the second knight to d5. It's quite difficult to find earlier deviations for Black as well- Some people occasionally suggest 17...Nxd5?! 18. exd5 Qb6 as an improvement for Black, but he's actually losing after 19. g4! This isn't particularly surprising either, since he completely abandoned his kingside with his 17th move.
The last option is the most recent one as well, 12...a6!? This is in the same "prophylactic" waiting boat as 12...Re8, only now Black doesn't have a problem with the same Nd5 line, for example 12...a6!? 13. h4 h5 14. Bh6 Nc4 15. Bxc4 Rxc4 16. Bxg7 Kxg7 17. Nd5 e5 18. Nxf6? is met by 18...Rxd4, since there is now no 19. Nxe8+ This line was discussed quite a bit by a few Dragoneers (myself included) on the ChessPub Dragon Forum. Here is the link:
http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1204238047/0
Here are some of the top level games:
http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1501664
http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1499642
http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1504596
http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1499385
http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1504215
http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1499553
There was also discussion of improvements for Black in the 12...a6 games that were lost (out of the above ones). In general, I think Black is in good shape after the popular 13. h4 h5 14. g4 hxg4! (this overzealous plan for White almost never works in the Dragon, and I don't think it does here either.)
Okay, now for me to finish the teaser I mentioned earlier:
One line I really like that hasn't been mentioned yet against 12. Kb1 is 12...Nc4 13. Bxc4 Rxc4 14. g4 b5 15. b3! b4!? , when 16. bxc4 bxc3 17. Qxc3 Qc7! is critical. It's a very complicated game, but obviously Black has compensation for the exchange. White's kingside is permanently messed up, and it's not particularly easy for him to find a plan. I've got some homebrewed analysis in this position, but we can see what everything thinks about this option if it happens. Here are two games by one of the most consistent GM Dragoneers around, Pontus Carlsson:
http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1482081
The plan with ...Be8 followed by ...Nd7-b6/e5 - a4/c4 is quite strong in my opinion, and was common in my analysis as well. If Pontus Carlsson thinks it's good enough, I'd definitely play it too.
Hope you guys enjoy, sorry for the sheer amount of information. That said, for me, the decisions come later. 11...Ne5 is definitely best here, there are barely any games in my database with anything else.
Originally posted by !~TONY~!I like that Re8 plan and use it often... I hate when I have to trade off my bishop after wasting so much time to put it there.
11...Ne5 is the book move. I would expect the line 11...Ne5 12. Kb1! to happen, given the immense popularity of this line lately at the top levels, and it certainly poses Black the most difficult problems. Just to give people an idea of what's happening, here's White's idea - White takes one move out to simply improve his position a little bit. In general, ...[text shortened]... e barely any games in my database with anything else.
Originally posted by moteutschI suppose you mean c4 and what makes you think white will play 14.Ne2? If I were white I would play h5, for that matter what makes you think he'll play 12.h4? 12.g4 is perfectly playable. Maybe it is a good line but you can't assume he will play inferior moves.
I like this line:
11... Ne5 12. h4 Nc5 13. Bxc5 Rxc5 14. Nde2 h5
What do you think?
Personally after 14.Nde2 I would play 14...Qa5 anyway.
Sorry if I was a bit blunt but that's just my opinion. Keep throwing ideas up to be pondered and don't be deterred by a grumpy old man like me.
12. h4 is not a mistake, it's the main move. Actually, in my opinion 12. g4 is a bit dubious. Black can reply with 12...b5! , and White has some problems to solve since he can't the pawn (f3 hangs, which leaves White a mess) White can then play 13. h4 or 13. g5, both are met by 13...b4! Suffice to say that the positions aren't particularly fun for White, since his bishop gets into trouble after an eventual ...a5-a4.
Originally posted by !~TONY~!12.h4
12. h4 is not a mistake, it's the main move. Actually, in my opinion 12. g4 is a bit dubious. Black can reply with 12...b5! , and White has some problems to solve since he can't the pawn (f3 hangs, which leaves White a mess) White can then play 13. h4 or 13. g5, both are met by 13...b4! Suffice to say that the positions aren't particularly fun for White, since his bishop gets into trouble after an eventual ...a5-a4.
The main continuation. White shows his intentions to attack on the kingside as quickly as possible. At the beginning of the Dragon Sicilian theory (middle sixties) in the diagram position Black used to play 12...Nc4 and 12...Qa5. Then 12...Qa5 practically disappeared from the scene, while 12...Nc4 started to lose popularity because of 12...h5.
Nowadays 12...Nc4 (B78 - 12.h4 Nc4 (13.Bxc4 Rxc4 14.g4)) and 12...h5 (B78 - 12.h4 h5), are the only reasonable moves for Black. The alternatives are clearly worse:
- 12...a5 runs into the typical 13.a4!, when Black himself considerably reduced the future counterplay on the queenside. See for instance Schneider - Janusch 1-0.
- 12...Qa5 leaves White with a pleasant choice. 13.g4 Nc4 14.Bxc4 Rxc4 transposes to 12.g4 Qa5 (see B78 - 11...Ne5 (12.g4) the move 12...Qa5). Black can hardly hope to get sufficient counterplay there. However, White has another strong continuation 13.Kb1, because after 13...Nc4 14.Bxc4 Rxc4 15.Nb3 followed by either 16.h5 or 16.Bh6, White's attack is much too dangerous and often Black must give up material to stop it, Ulibin,M - Yurtaev,L 1-0.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieRobbie, you never covered the line 12. Kb1 Nc4 13. Bc4 Rc4 14. g4 b5 15. b3 b4!, which is in my opinion, a good way to play. Really the only way after 12...Nc4 actually.
12...Nc4
[fen]2rq1rk1/pp1bppbp/3p1np1/8/2nNP3/1BN1BP2/PPPQ2PP/1K1R3R w - - 0 13[/fen]
For several years considered the best and enough to neutralize 12.Kb1. However, modern practice has proved that things are not easy for Black and he faces real difficulties in this line.
13.Bxc4 Rxc4 14.g4!
The move 14.h4 KeyLink is inaccurate. Black sho ...[text shortened]... ey had little to do with the opening. After 17.Nd4 Black's compensation is not worth a pawn.