Just seen youtube analysis by Carlsen on the above game.
He says he was surprised to see 3.c3 and later admits that his 47...b5 here.
Was a blunder. 47...b5 48. Qxa5 Qd1+ 49. Qe1 The move he missed.
He thought he was getting the g-pawn with a check.
Hi Kingshill.
You are correct. Round 4. Carlsen played it as White and won.
M.Carlsen - P.Harikrishna, Tata Steel 2013
Originally posted by greenpawn34Black played the inferior defensive opening line in both of these games. The correct line for black is as follows:
Just seen youtube analysis by Carlsen on the above game.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X27cvLgwiWQ
He says he was surprised to see 3.c3 and later admits that his 47...b5 here.
[fen]8/1kp5/1p6/p2q4/Q5P1/8/5P2/5K2 b - - 0 47[/fen]
Was a blunder. 47...b5 48. Qxa5 Qd1+ 49. Qe1 The move he missed.
He thought he was getting the g-pawn with a check. ...[text shortened]... Nb4 Qd6+ 45. Kh1 Qd1+ 46. Qg1 Qd6 47. Nd5 Rf8 48. Qd4 Kh8 49. Rc8 Bc6[/pgn]
The following is the first game I played against the Ponziani opening on RHP. This was the 16th game I finished and I was still playing without aids of opening books or the RHP analyze board. However, I managed to win against a higher rated opponent at the time. At the end of this game my rating went up to 1582 and his went down to 1645. I played this game like I was playing against the Guioco Piano, which I had studied before I stopped playing chess in 1982.
[Event "Open invite"]
[Site "http://www.redhotpawn.com"]
[Date "2011.01.31"]
[EndDate "2011.02.28"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Genghis Khan1162"]
[Black "RJHinds"]
[WhiteRating "1645"]
[BlackRating "1582"]
[WhiteElo "1645"]
[BlackElo "1582"]
[Result "0-1"]
[GameId "8145928"]
Originally posted by RJHindsWho knew the idea of c3 was to play d4? !!! 😲
The following is the first game I played against the Ponziani opening on RHP. This was the 16th game I finished and I was still playing without aids of opening books or the RHP analyze board. However, I managed to win against a higher rated opponent at the time. At the end of this game my rating went up to 1582 and his went down to 1645. I played this ga ...[text shortened]... 46. Nc7xd5 Ra3a1 47. Nd5b6 a3 48. Nb6d5 a2 49. Nd5b4 Ra1h1 0-1
[/pgn]
Originally posted by paulbuchmanfromficsYes, I believed that was coming. Did you see how I handled it? After all I am only a 1500 player OTB and I was playing that game like an OTB game without the clock and the requirement to record my moves. I am not a Magnus Carlsen and, thank God, neither was my opponent. 😏
Who knew the idea of c3 was to play d4? !!! 😲
Originally posted by RJHindsOK ... I will give the devil his due. It was a nice patient maneuvering game. You didn't overract and played some nice positional chess. As long as black doesn't go overboard in the open games and plays good sound moves, he should be able to hold equailty and eventually get in his own shots (if the opportunity presents itself). That's also nice finish. Good Game
Yes, I believed that was coming. Did you see how I handled it? After all I am only a 1500 player OTB and I was playing that game like an OTB game without the clock and the requirement to record my moves. I am not a Magnus Carlsen and, thank God, neither was my opponent. 😏
Originally posted by RJHindsAre you able to explain why 3...d5 is better than 3...Nf6? Evaluation of your engine or did you read Wikipedia?
Black played the inferior defensive opening line in both of these games. The correct line for black is as follows:
[pgn]
1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. c3 d5 {not 3...Nf6}
[/pgn]
Black has a lot of choices because c3 doesn't put immediate pressure on black.
RJ's 3. ... Bc5 may be one of the worst, because it plays right into white's hands (losing time in the process).
I have tried many moves against the Ponziani over the years.
3. ... d5
This is a theoritical line. I believe that it is the recommendation in the Emms book Play The Open Games As Black. Black must learn to meet exd5, Bb5, and Qa4. Black doesn't have any real problems, but I personally didn't like the positions it led to as much.
3. ... Nf6
This is the other main recommendation (including by Marin in his book on 1. ...e5).
3. ... Nf6 can lead to closed positional maneuvering, but there are chances for black. Marin introduced an interesting variation where black gets an open h file (and all sorts of Rh4 ideas pop up for black.)
I think it goes like this:
I have tried more rare variations against the Ponziani too.
3. ... f5
When I want the initiative or an attempt at a quick win, I go for f5. It's like a Latvian Gambit where c3 doesn't really help white. White may get an edge, theoretically, but it's a good fighting move.
3. ...d6
This is good for a good closed battle as well. 4.Bb5 can go into a Ruy Lopez Steinitz (but with a pawn on c3). With d6, black just plays a solid move and leaves most of theory. With patient play, black will get chances to outplay white in the late middlegame or endgame. 4.d4 Bd7 is usually how I follow up.
Bd7 just keeps the queens on, so that black can have more chances later.
I imagine 3. ... Qe7
would also be playable. Black follows up with g6. The good thing is that white no longer has Nc3 and Nd5.
The Ponziani just lets up the pressure to early, to lead to a forced advantage in my opinion.
Originally posted by greenpawn34Interesting ... This is really a Two Knights Modern Variation with an extra move for white.
Just seen youtube analysis by Carlsen on the above game.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X27cvLgwiWQ
He says he was surprised to see 3.c3 and later admits that his 47...b5 here.
[fen]8/1kp5/1p6/p2q4/Q5P1/8/5P2/5K2 b - - 0 47[/fen]
Was a blunder. 47...b5 48. Qxa5 Qd1+ 49. Qe1 The move he missed.
He thought he was getting the g-pawn with a check. ...[text shortened]... Nb4 Qd6+ 45. Kh1 Qd1+ 46. Qg1 Qd6 47. Nd5 Rf8 48. Qd4 Kh8 49. Rc8 Bc6[/pgn]
Two Knights after move 8
Carlsen after move 8
He gained c3 by not losing time with Bc4-Bb5. Technically, its a Ponziani, but it really isn't.