18 May 07
1 edit
In OTB games, players are allowed to ask the tournament director questions regarding the rules, and may even stop the clocks to do so. Questions regarding the definition of insufficient material are among these (but the how with minimum material is not). Such questions do not violate the rule not to discuss a game in progress with other players or spectators.
Why, then, was Thread 69224 closed? I see nothing inappropriate there.
A single knight, two knights, or a single bishop each constitute insufficient material. A single rook, on the other hand, is sufficient.
18 May 07
Originally posted by WulebgrDoes RHP have an equivalent of a tournament director? Maybe the admins support this role, but I guess it's not via a forum since this may lead to someone getting help when they shouldn't.
In OTB games, players are allowed to ask the tournament director questions regarding the rules
I guess we can't expect everything about CC, and RHP in particular, to be the same as OTB. RHP should just declare the game drawn when insufficient material arises.
18 May 07
1 edit
please help me check mate this guy, he says i cant beet him with a king and knight, vs his king in 50 moves, i have been tying with no sucsess, is it possible?
There wasn't a link to the game, and the player asked if it was possible, which is a perfectly valid question. Therefore, I don't believe the thread should have been closed.
If it was possible (which it isn't, in this case) and he asked for help on how to do it, then he will be breaking the rules.
EDIT: You could argue that it will encourage players to find the game and give advise on that, but it will be the person who dug up the game's fault, not the person who started the thread.
18 May 07
Originally posted by lauseyBut where do you draw the line?
the player asked if it was possible, which is a perfectly valid question.
I ask: "can I mate with king and rook versus king?, is it possible"
Forum: "yes"
I say: "thanks, I was tempted by his draw offer but will now decline it"
18 May 07
Originally posted by VarenkaThat will still be a valid question. If he didn't know he could mate with a rook and king, then he wouldn't know the theory behind knowing how to do it. It will then be up to him how to carry out the mate within 50 moves. If he can't, it will still be a draw.
But where do you draw the line?
I ask: "can I mate with king and rook versus king?, is it possible"
Forum: "yes"
I say: "thanks, I was tempted by his draw offer but will now decline it"
18 May 07
Originally posted by lauseyBut since he knows it can be done he may be able to find the right way just based on that knowledge. Even in a situation where there is insufficient material to force a mate, it is still possible that the opponent can blunder into one. Therefore, telling someone that it is possible to checkmate his opponent would be considered giving advice and so is against the rules. It is up to the players to determine whether or not a checkmate is possible - no one else.
That will still be a valid question. If he didn't know he could mate with a rook and king, then he wouldn't know the theory behind knowing how to do it. It will then be up to him how to carry out the mate within 50 moves. If he can't, it will still be a draw.
Also, if you are looking at a tactical puzzle, it is much easier to find the solution if you are told whether that solution is a checkmate or simply a gain of material, thus, giving the solution to a game-in-progress, whether you are telling a move order or not, could still be valuable knowledge.
18 May 07
Originally posted by lauseyPlaying chess is a series of decisions. At each turn we decide whether to resign; offer/accept a draw; or make a move. Just because someone may not be capable of making the right decisions later in the game, does not justify helping them with a current decision.
That will still be a valid question. If he didn't know he could mate with a rook and king, then he wouldn't know the theory behind knowing how to do it. It will then be up to him how to carry out the mate within 50 moves. If he can't, it will still be a draw.
If this doesn't convince you, suppose I have an arbitrary endgame position where I've been offered a draw. I can't see any way to win. Should I be allowed to access an engine/tablebase if it tells me whether or not it is indeed drawn? (assume it doesn't tell me how to win, if a win is possible)
Do you think this question is valid:
"with KBP vs K, and with my opponent's king controlling a8, is it possible to win with my pawn on a3? what about if it's on b3? the bishop controls dark squares"
18 May 07
Originally posted by VarenkaWould, In your opinion, thingg be any different if i did any of the following:
But where do you draw the line?
I ask: "can I mate with king and rook versus king?, is it possible"
Forum: "yes"
I say: "thanks, I was tempted by his draw offer but will now decline it"
a) without explaining, linked to a game with a R+K vs K mate.
b) linked to a teaching chess site
c) copy & pasted from a teaching site
personally i think the difference is semantecs
QED:-
"is it theorectially possible to win K+R vs K endgames?"
"in one of my games, its K+R vs K, I want to know, is it theorically won or drawn?"
Id draw a very simple line, tell them the priciple, how to, the concept, etc --- just don't post anything about the actaul position.
18 May 07
2 edits
Originally posted by VarenkaThat question will be valid if it wasn't referencing a specific game. Chess positions that aren't for a particular game are shown in these forums all the time. However, asking if it is possible to mate with specific pieces shouldn't be a problem if there isn't any mention of where the pieces are on the board (even if this game might possibly be in progress).
Do you think this question is valid:
"with KBP vs K, and with my opponent's king controlling a8, is it possible to win with my pawn on a3? what about if it's on b3? the bishop controls dark squares"
18 May 07
Originally posted by ChessJesterYes, and tactical puzzles do give a specific position. I am talking about if it was possible to mate with a given set of pieces, without the position shown.
But since he knows it can be done he may be able to find the right way just based on that knowledge. Even in a situation where there is insufficient material to force a mate, it is still possible that the opponent can blunder into one. Therefore, telling someone that it is possible to checkmate his opponent would be considered giving advice and so is aga ...[text shortened]... ame-in-progress, whether you are telling a move order or not, could still be valuable knowledge.
18 May 07
Originally posted by lauseyThe thread in question was discussing a specific game. From the initial poster's point of view it was being referenced. He wasn't asking a general question; he wanted help with his specific game.
That question will be valid if it wasn't referencing a specific game.
18 May 07
2 edits
Originally posted by VarenkaYes, in the question you asked, it will be invalid for a specific game, which was:
The thread in question was discussing a specific game. From the initial poster's point of view it was being referenced. He wasn't asking a general question; he wanted help with his specific game.
with KBP vs K, and with my opponent's king controlling a8, is it possible to win with my pawn on a3? what about if it's on b3? the bishop controls dark squares
because it mentions actual positions.
If you asked, "Is it possible to mate KBP vs K?" though, it doesn't matter if the game is in progress, because no positions are mentioned. It is a general question with a given set of pieces. In this case the answer will be "It depends on the position".