07 Jun 06
Originally posted by TommyCTouche. Anyway, The Grand Prix with Bc4 I think isn't played anymore because Black realized he shouldn't waste time with ..d6, only having to play ..d5 later to blunt the bishop along the a2-g8 diagonal. I think the line that discourages white players is:
Funny, I only count one.
1. e4 c5
2. Nc3 Nc6
3. f4 g6
4. Nf3 Bg7
5. Bc4 e6!
when black follows up with Nge7 and a quick d5. It looks like f5 doesn't do much for white here, since black can take with the g-pawn.
07 Jun 06
this line provided by 'tony' {Below} is slightly incorect (being that he missed the fact black is in check) but i've taken the idea's and added to them 🙂
..c4! Qxc4 Nxe5 and if Qb3 Qb6+ wins, and if Qd5 Nf6! Qxe5 Qe7, etc... wins for black.
c4! [the critical move]...Qxc4+ [what else? -- Qxb6 Nxg5 0-1] e6 Nxe6
Then What?
Nxe5? [Nf7 seems playable, but allows black to equalise] ** Nxd8 Nxc4 Nf7 +/-
** variations: -
1)Qd5 Qb6+ 0-1
((tony's line Qd5 Nf6 Qxe5 Qe7?! [Qb6+]...also seems to works But I'd say Qb6+ is better, its more forcing and will quickly win the N@e6.))
2)Qb3 Qb6+ 0-1
The more I look at this the more I fail to see whites advantage....so where is it? what Crazy ass move am I missing?
07 Jun 06
Your line looks ok for white, but it's certainly not winning. The line I calculated leaves white up an exchange with zero develop, and a tough time getting the pieces out at that. I think Black is probably equal to slightly better after Nf7. Just because White wins the rook on h8 for the knight doesn't make him winning. Check it out.
07 Jun 06
3 edits
Originally posted by !~TONY~!Well, constructive critics, ths! Not only insults, as in my other post. 😕 I analised the variation and concluded it+s not clear, but if u have an oportunity for an interesting move, play it!
..c4! Qxc4 Nxe5 and if Qb3 Qb6+ wins, and if Qd5 Nf6! Qxe5 Qe7, etc... wins for black.
Your analisis mis a poit. After ..c4! Qxc4 Nxe5 Qd5 Nf6! white don't play Qxe5 but Rxf6! Qxf6 Nc7+, white will have a two pawns more, but a problem of a development of of a quin wing, this is why I said it is still a game. Or Be6 Nxe6 is possible, a material is even.
So, it was worth to play.
07 Jun 06
Originally posted by Lydia BlondieI don't think you analysed that line far enough. It's true that you'll win the rook on a8, but I am pretty sure you are toast after that. After Nc7+ Kh7 Nxa8? Bc6! looks devastating. You move the queen to a5 lets say, and Qg6 looks like it just about ends the game, since g3 is met by Qe4, forcing mate.
Well, constructive critics, ths! Not only insults, as in my other post. 😕 I analised the variation and concluded it+s not clear, but if u have an oportunity for an interesting move, play it!
Your analisis mis a poit. After ..c4! Qxc4 Nxe5 Qd5 Nf6! white don't play Qxe5 but Rxf6! Qxf6 Nc7+, white will have a two pawns more, but a problem of a devel ...[text shortened]... d it is still a game. Or Be6 Nxe6 is possible, a material is even.
So, it was worth to play.
08 Jun 06
Originally posted by !~TONY~!Well, I must recognise u r right. I said in the first post, I was aware that it is not claer, but a posibility was too atractive. And I win! They said that Michael Talj was lost in half of his wining games, and thed Emanuel Lasker was lost in EVERY game! 😕 However, it was an interesting game fro analisis. Thx for your help!
I don't think you analysed that line far enough. It's true that you'll win the rook on a8, but I am pretty sure you are toast after that. After Nc7+ Kh7 Nxa8? Bc6! looks devastating.
08 Jun 06
Originally posted by Lydia Blondieyour Line is wrong....
Well, constructive critics, ths! Not only insults, as in my other post. 😕 I analised the variation and concluded it+s not clear, but if u have an oportunity for an interesting move, play it!
Your analisis mis a poit. After ..c4! Qxc4 Nxe5 Qd5 Nf6! white don't play Qxe5 but Rxf6! Qxf6 Nc7+, white will have a two pawns more, but a problem of a devel ...[text shortened]... d it is still a game. Or Be6 Nxe6 is possible, a material is even.
So, it was worth to play.
c4 Qxc4+ ((Nxe5 is not a legal move because black is in damn check!!))
e6 must be played before Nxe5.
^and thats the secound time i've pointed this out. ^^^
08 Jun 06
Originally posted by Shinidokic4 Qxc4+ e6 Nxe6 Nxe5 Qd5 Nf6! Rxf6 Qxf6 Nc7+ is what I calculated, see my last post.
your Line is wrong....
c4 Qxc4[b]+ ((Nxe5 is not a legal move because black is in damn check!!))
e6 must be played before Nxe5.
^and thats the secound time i've pointed this out. ^^^[/b]
I also calculated, after c4 Qxc4 e6 Nxe6 Nxe5 Qd5, another posibility: Qb6+ Nd4+ Be6 and now Qxd5 I supose is beter then Qxe6+ Qxe6 Nxe6 Nd3! and with two pawns more I have a hard position.
09 Jun 06
1 edit
Originally posted by Lydia BlondieI don't see why black resigned. From final position...
A clasical sacriface in openings at the f7 squere! Game 2122754 😕
I like this game; however, he resignet too soon! It is still a game!
..e6
Nxe6 ..Na5
Qd5 ..Bc6
Qxd8 ..Rxd8
Nxd8 ..Bd5
Which ever way i look at it black remains a piece up, any exchange of Queens ends whites attack and allows black to sort his pieces out.
10 Jun 06
3 edits
Originally posted by marinakatombAm I missing something? It's checkmate in two moves, isn't it?
I don't see why black resigned. From final position...
..e6
Nxe6 ..Na5
Qd5 ..Bc6
Qxd8 ..Rxd8
Nxd8 ..Bd5
Which ever way i look at it black remains a piece up, any exchange of Queens ends whites attack and allows black to sort his pieces out.
Edit: ...c4
Qxc4 Be6
Qxe6++
These are the only legal moves!!