@trev33 said
Why it is your business why anyone died other than the families?

And is 40 old?

death notices are Vital Statistics in California....this is available to the public !

@trev33 said
Why it is your business why anyone died other than the families?

And is 40 old?

It's not so much a "need to know", Trev, it is just seeing a surge in young people
who die young. We don't always know the cause, of course, so we guess what
it might be. And that is what this thread is.

@earl-of-trumps said
It's not so much a "need to know", Trev, it is just seeing a surge in young people
who die young. We don't always know the cause, of course, so we guess what
it might be. And that is what this thread is.

It's important to have population statistics, but that doesn't mean we need families to go public about individual stories. As long as the information is collected when death certificates are registered the public can see population statistics as they should whilst individual families are respected as well. For me the system breaks down when coroners record open verdicts because they feel they are taking care of the family. That can lead to under estimation of suicide stats and poor understanding of the level of need.

@petewxyz said
It's important to have population statistics, but that doesn't mean we need families to go public about individual stories. As long as the information is collected when death certificates are registered the public can see population statistics as they should whilst individual families are respected as well. For me the system breaks down when coroners record open verdicts bec ...[text shortened]... ily. That can lead to under estimation of suicide stats and poor understanding of the level of need.

Pete, for certain, people don't have a right to snoop into private affairs. I get it.
But people are quite naturally disturbed by this, as we all should be.

I have memories back when AIDS was incurable of seeing the same thing.
the young people that died without explanation were suddenly looked at
suspiciously as possible AIDS victims. And clearly everyone had the right to
be as disturbed by the advent of AIDS as we are with SARS-CoV-2, except
Catching HIV and acquiring AIDS was an automatic death sentence back then.

So here we are again. Young people dying.
It's disturbing, Peter. Very. I had a friend that was taken out by a concoction of
heroin and fentanyl, a brand new drug that I knew nothing about. I never even
knew he was a user. Hard working fisherman. 30 years old, gone.

It's very scary stuff, Pete. very sad.
And just as my friend, many people end up in a homeless shelter or worse,
on the street. It's an existence that must be hell on earth.

Anyway, I've rambled here. It just means that much to me. I hate drugs
for all the destruction and killing they have caused.

@earl-of-trumps said
Pete, for certain, people don't have a right to snoop into private affairs. I get it.
But people are quite naturally disturbed by this, as we all should be.

I have memories back when AIDS was incurable of seeing the same thing.
the young people that died without explanation were suddenly looked at
suspiciously as possible AIDS victims. And clearly everyone had th ...[text shortened]... . It just means that much to me. I hate drugs
for all the destruction and killing they have caused.

Hard to see, thanks for sharing your personal experience which is hard to do. There was a lot of substance abuse around me when I was a kid, but what I saw in my working life suggested kids were getting introduced to manufactured and stronger substances much earlier with some devastating consequences. The manufactured skunk was a completely different thing to the cannabis of my childhood with levels of THC that could even result in visual hallucinations.

There is a lot of bad information about substance abuse which doesn't help. In the 60s and 70s the dangers of cannabis were massively overstated and that lost public health a lot of credibility.

Some years ago I read up on recent research around cannabis. There is important and relatively new learning about a COMHT enzyme in a metabolic pathway in the brain that has levels determined by simple mendelian inheritance. So just as you need two recessive genes for blue eyes you need two for low levels of the COMHT enzyme.

To cut a long story short it can both be true that a kid can be surrounded by loads of people who do not risk psychotic illness from cannabis usage, whilst they themselves might be at high risk of life changing psychosis, if they happen to have low levels of the COMHT enzyme. So it becomes both true that it is not 'the killer weed' and also true that there is a ten fold increased of risk of psychotic illness for cannabis users as a whole, with the effect being almost exclusively attributed to the people with the different enzyme levels. So if it is bad for you it is really bad for you and you may even get into other substances just living with the effects of life long psychotic illness, and yet the majority of people can also say they did cannabis for years with no adverse effect.

As well as the lack of good information about substances and mental health there is also a lack of services for underlying mental health problems. This is particularly true for the homeless and you would be shocked how limited the resources were for mental health work with the homeless in a city like Liverpool. The budget may have changed but when I saw it, it was a single nurse.

@petewxyz said
Hard to see, thanks for sharing your personal experience which is hard to do. There was a lot of substance abuse around me when I was a kid, but what I saw in my working life suggested kids were getting introduced to manufactured and stronger substances much earlier with some devastating consequences. The manufactured skunk was a completely different thing to the cannabis of ...[text shortened]... less in a city like Liverpool. The budget may have changed but when I saw it, it was a single nurse.

Thanks for that Pete. So we see that part of the problem is genetics. Not surprising, really. Just as some people are more prone to addictive behavior than others. I know I am one that has addictive behavior and if I ever did try drugs, I would have been gone long ago.

Very sad and I have thought many a time - "what can be done?".
Tough to come up with a reasonable solution. But I am fairly certain our best weapon is to prevent the kids from experimenting in the first place.

The problem is, we have pushers out there, some are addicts and getting their fix money, and they can be very persuasive, too.

Maybe if I live long enough, we can see improvement. Maybe.

@earl-of-trumps said
Thanks for that Pete. So we see that part of the problem is genetics. Not surprising, really. Just as some people are more prone to addictive behavior than others. I know I am one that has addictive behavior and if I ever did try drugs, I would have been gone long ago.

Very sad and I have thought many a time - "what can be done?".
Tough to come up with a reasonabl ...[text shortened]... and they can be very persuasive, too.

Maybe if I live long enough, we can see improvement. Maybe.

Many of those who make the big money on drugs don't use them - it's the dealers lower in the hierarchy that are the addicts. Or so I have been told. It makes the business even more cynical.

@torunn said
Many of those who make the big money on drugs don't use them - it's the dealers lower in the hierarchy that are the addicts. Or so I have been told. It makes the business even more cynical.

I would guess a very small percentage of people who make the big money from selling drugs actually use it, hell they don't even sell them they have others to that for them.

-VR

@very-rusty said
I would guess a very small percentage of people who make the big money from selling drugs actually use it, hell they don't even sell them they have others to that for them.

-VR

They send young people into drug addiction, prostitution and other criminal activities - what kind of monsters are they?

@torunn said
They send young people into drug addiction, prostitution and other criminal activities - what kind of monsters are they?

Yes, and it happens all over the world in many different countries.

The money guys just don't care they are just greedy for the money they haul in daily!

-VR

@very-rusty said
Yes, and it happens all over the world in many different countries.

The money guys just don't care they are just greedy for the money they haul in daily!

-VR

Some of them may have families - wife, children, parents, siblings - how can they live with themselves?

@torunn said
Some of them may have families - wife, children, parents, siblings - how can they live with themselves?

I believe many of them have families, wife, mistresses, & children. The odds are pretty good in many cases the siblings or parents don't even know what is going on.

We would be surprised to learn who some of these money men are and positions they hold. No one knows about that part of their life.

-VR

@torunn said
They send young people into drug addiction, prostitution and other criminal activities - what kind of monsters are they?

The worst one I encountered which I believe is not unusual is the 'drug party'. A vulnerable teenager is invited and they get to invite their mates to show off the company they now keep. To their dismay at the end of the party they are presented with 'the bill' for the drugs as of course it was their party, didn't they realise!

The young person is assertively told that they are now in debt and that they and their family are at risk, but they are offered a way working their way out of debt if they just sell this bag of drugs in their school or college. But of course they can never quite sell enough to cover the debt and interest and the cost of the bag they sold so they must sell some more.

In the end some are so frightened for their family they ingest the whole bag themselves to try and escape the trap and end up on the paediatric wards if they are lucky. But then it is down to a well enough staffed ward to make the space to actually get the story told by kids who are terrified to tell it.

Of course there is always the other possibility of getting out of debt if you will let the dealer sell your body at the next party. These are the stories that make me feel glad to be retired, but also show the desperate need for better children's services to get the stories in the open. If there aren't enough people looking out for the kids in difficulties at well staffed schools and hospitals kids that could be rescued are missed and drugs are introduced through the school.

@torunn said
Many of those who make the big money on drugs don't use them - it's the dealers lower in the hierarchy that are the addicts. Or so I have been told. It makes the business even more cynical.

Oh, did you ever hit a sore spot there, Torrun, legalized dangerous DEALING.

These drug companies and many scurrilous doctors are Soooooooo guilty in
issuing these highly addictive drugs to people. The doctors get KICKBACKS
for getting people addicted. And they get away with it because our damnable
POLITICIANS protect them - because the big drug dealers BIG PHARMA, give the pols protection money. So yes, it is a conspiracy to get people addicted.

And the fish rots from the head.

@torunn said
They send young people into drug addiction, prostitution and other criminal activities - what kind of monsters are they?

Yes, Torunn and yet, to me, there is no public outcry. WHY.
People get upset, vicious even, if you don't wear a mask, or other lesser
violators. I really am at a loss for words at society. So relaxed over this.

Over 67,000 deaths by overdose in 2018. Imagine.
And many lives are immiserated as well. What is wrong with people??
We can do so much more at preventing these deaths than we can COVID.
I don't get it.