Brexit reflections so far

Originally posted by FMF
The power is tangible. It is real. If it is devolved ~ i.e. restored ~ then it is concentrated where the majority of the electorate want it, This is clearly a benefit to those who wanted to see an end of that political control being dissipated or transferred away from where they could exert influence on it. This is tangible.

So lets get this,

Leaving the E.U was good for the UK because. . . .power is tangible and restored power is always good especially if thats what the people want.

Anyone else proffer something other than copious amounts of slobbery dwool? something factual? Something that is corroborated, substantiated?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
So lets get this,

Leaving the E.U was good for the UK because. . . .power is tangible and restored power is always good especially if thats what the people want.

Absolutely. Restored power, in accordance with the will of the citizenry, is tangible because it will affect countless events and impacts on reality, all of which will be under the increased influence of those who elect their representatives [more 'locally'] to manage those impacts.

You may not personally agree with this outcome, or with the decisions this devolved power will make, and you may have a personal preference for centralized 'European power' over devolved 'British power', but none of this can negate the fact that the change in political power is THE tangible benefit that Brexiteers sought.

You don't have to approve of this in order for it to be "tangible".

Originally posted by FMF
Absolutely. Restored power, in accordance with the will of the citizenry, is tangible because it will affect countless events and impacts on reality, all of which will be under the increased influence of those who elect their representatives to manage those impacts.

You may not personally agree with this outcome, or with the decisions this devolved power wil ...[text shortened]... that Brexiteers sought.

You don't have to approve of this in order for it to be "tangible".

Please note that I am only attempting to ascertain how leaving the EU will benefit the UK, you have gave me no credible, substantiated, corroborated or factual reason other than to talk about power being tangible, the will of the citizenry and references to the outcome of the referendum which no one is disputing.

Thanks but if you don't mind I think I might ask someone else because you have given no credible reason how any of what you have said will benefit the UK merely being content to insist that it will.

Leaving the EU is good for the UK because. . . .

FMF: So for you does "tangible benefits" mean money and grants?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
It can mean many things, money, grants, initiatives, projects, private research etc etc

So would it be right to say you are concerned about the lack of "money, grants, initiatives, projects, private research etc. etc." since 24th June when the referendum result was announced?

Originally posted by FMF
So would it be right to say you are concerned about the lack of "money, grants, initiatives, projects, private research etc. etc." since 24th June when the referendum result was announced?

No i am not concerned about anything other than trying to ascertain why its considered good for the UK to leave the EU. There may be a case for an economic argument but its based on conjecture. apart from that I have had little success in ascertaining why. The UK was the least regulated member state of the EU and the taking back power argument is in my opinion unconvincing.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
you have given no credible reason how any of what you have said will benefit the UK merely being content to insist that it will.

But with the referendum decision only 6 days old and the UK still in the E.U. isn't everything on the 'consequence' and 'benefits' side of this decision a case of what "will" be, what "will" happen, etc.? The fact that the people of Britain will, after leaving the E.U., have more direct control over political decisions is clearly a benefit in and of itself, regardless of whether you wanted it to be this way and regardless of whether you "will" disagree with many of those political decisions and disagree with your many of your fellow Britons about those political decisions.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
No i am not concerned about anything other than trying to ascertain why its considered good for the UK to leave the EU..

Why was considered ~ by those who voted for it ~ good for the UK to leave the E.U.? Well, how about increased autonomy for the British people as expressed through their national political mechanism? That's a "why".

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
The UK was the least regulated member state of the EU and the taking back power argument is in my opinion unconvincing.

So when you use the word "tangible benefit", as you have done on this thread, are you in fact treating the word "tangible" as being synonymous with "convincing"?

Originally posted by FMF
But with the referendum decision only 6 days old and the UK still in the E.U. isn't everything on the 'consequence' and 'benefits' side of this decision a case of what "will" be, what "will" happen, etc.? The fact that the people of Britain will, after leaving the E.U., have more direct control over political decisions is clearly a benefit in and of itself, rega ...[text shortened]... al decisions and disagree with your many of your fellow Britons about those political decisions.

I have already attempted to ascertain from you why its considered a benefit and all you can tell me because I say it is because you say it is, sorry, but that's not a reason.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
There may be a case for an economic argument but its based on conjecture. apart from that I have had little success in ascertaining why.

Well OK, put aside the "economic argument" for a moment. What about the "political argument"?

Originally posted by FMF
So when you use the word "tangible benefit", as you have done on this thread, are you in fact treating the word "tangible" as being synonymous with "convincing"?

I gave an example of a tangible benefit (pouring money into keeping Gaelic alive), you seemed to be slobbering on about power when asked if you had an example of one. Sorry but again its simply not good enough.

I am uninterested in you silly semantic questions and they will be ignored .

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I have already attempted to ascertain from you why its considered a benefit and all you can tell me because I say it is because you say it is, sorry, but that's not a reason.

I have given you a range of political reasons. They can be read in my posts on the last few pages. Attempting to summarize them with "all you can tell me because I say it is because you say it is" won't wash.

Originally posted by FMF
Well OK, put aside the "economic argument" for a moment. What about the "political argument"?

But I have already asked you and you cannot tell me anything other than devolution of power to the UK is good because you say it is, or its good for the UK because its the will of the people?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I gave an example of a tangible benefit (pouring money into keeping Gaelic alive).

This was a tangible benefit in the eyes of supporters and beneficiaries of the policy. It is not disputed. What argument is it exactly that you believe you are refuting by citing this example?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
But I have already asked you and you cannot tell me anything other than devolution of power to the UK is good because you say it is...

But this is not the argument I have been putting forward.