Originally posted by shavixmir
I totally agree with you.
What the hell is wrong with people?
Children are being murdered. And it doesn't matter what the hell Hamas, terrorists, or whoever is doing what... DON'T KILL BLOODY CIVILIANS!
And the whole: "we told them to get out." rubbish is rubbish.
Gaza is half the size of New York city with 1.5 million people living in what can ...[text shortened]... UN buildings are being bombed by the Israeli's.
Where the hell are people supposed to go???
It's a problem, Shav. I understand that. We've had it out about Israel-Palestine in the past and I believe that your views are informed by humanitarianism, not prejudice or anti-Semitism. I also hope that you will acknowledge that my views, while perhaps informed by some innate prejudice of being born Jewish, are not informed by religious doctrine, racism or blood thirstiness.
The problem is that sometimes there's just no other way than taking actions that have the potential unintended side effect of killing civilians.
I also feel bad for the Palestinian civilians. I feel terrible for them. I really do. Not because they're starving (they're not) or because they live in squalor (they don't - especially compared to similarly situated civilians in Arab countries) but because they don't have the opportunity to grow and to produce. Their economy is reliant on foreign aid and they're not able to build great universities and exporting firms and production apparati. They have food and shelter, but they have no sense of purpose and self-respect. Their reported unemployment rate is over 30% and God know what the real unemployment rate is.
I suppose it's only natural that Hamas' platform appeals to them. Religious extremism, while laughable to most of the civilized world, at least gives them a sense of purpose. Something to fight is at least something to do and beats having nothing to do.
So, who's at fault here? I think it's partially Israel, but mostly Hamas. If Hamas would stop firing missiles and attacking Israel in various ways, Israel would end the blockade. Do I KNOW this for certain? Of course not. But I think it's likely true. Israel did not start the blockade until years after the 2005 withdrawal. Hamas attacks caused the blockade, which caused more Hamas attacks, which caused a tighter blockade, which cases war.
So, why do I think it's at all Israel's fault? Because Israel could try harder to negotiate a good faith 2 state solution. I think most Israelis want a 2 state solution and I think that most Palestinians and much of its WB leadership, wants a 2 state solution. I don't think Hamas wants anything short of Biblical victory, though it might be possible to convince them to take a long term truce.
The point is that the civilian deaths are a consequence of the war and the incredible eagerness of Hamas to use human shields, directly and indirectly (by setting up rocket launching sites in schools and residential areas). The further point is that it's not just that simple to say that civilian deaths are inherently the fault of the side that inflicts them. Israel has a responsibility to try to minimize civilian deaths and they're certainly doing do far more effectively than the carriers out of Hamburg, Dresden and Hiroshima.