Israel

@rajk999 said
The Arabs back in 1947 were offered a 2-state solution and they refused. They have refused all peace deals since.

The UNSCOP 1947 partition plan was stupid. Of course it was rejected.

"...plan’s detractors considered the proposed plan to be pro-Zionist, with 56% of the land allocated to the Jewish state although the Palestinian Arab population numbered twice the Jewish population. The plan was celebrated by most Jews in Palestine and reluctantly accepted by the Jewish Agency for Palestine with misgivings. Zionist leaders, in particular David Ben-Gurion, viewed the acceptance of the plan as a tactical step and a stepping stone to future territorial expansion over all of Palestine.

The Arab Higher Committee, the Arab League and other Arab leaders and governments rejected it on the basis that in addition to the Arabs forming a two-thirds majority, they owned a majority of the lands.

They also indicated an unwillingness to accept any form of territorial division, arguing that it violated the principles of national self-determination in the UN Charter which granted people the right to decide their own destiny. They announced their intention to take all necessary measures to prevent the implementation of the resolution."

These are all excellent reasons to reject. Subsequently, the Zionists resorted to arms and took the land by force, ethnically cleansing the lands they wanted for their 'majority Jewish' state.

And it's not even true that the Arabs have refused peace ever since - Fatah renounced violence, recognized Israel, and accepted the two-state solution as part of the Oslo Accords - only for the Israelis to tell them to go fukk themselves. That lead to Hamas being voted in and even THEY proposed peace in 2008 - to which the Israelis replied go fukk yourselves.

Basically none of what you are posting about the Arab-Israeli conflict is unbiased or accurate.

@athousandyoung said
What makes you think the Zionists required British permission to move to Israel?

Balfour. I said they got permission. What do you mean 'required'? Britain later tried to stem the migration (1945).

@spruce112358 said
Balfour. I said they got permission. What do you mean 'required'? Britain later tried to stem the migration (1945).

I suppose at the moment I posted that I felt you were implying the Zionists were hiding behind the British Empire when they occupied that territory.

I suspect the British Empire was powerless to decide the fate of Palestine and simply gave "permission" as a rubber stamp so they didn't look weak when Israel re-emerged from it's millenia long slumber.

In other words, you seem to suggest Israel is a, how do you say, "colony" of the British Empire as opposed to an independent country declaring independence on ethnic nationalist grounds.

@spruce112358 said

Israel has achieved political independence but has not resolved the issues from its colonial past.

It's not a former British colony full of Anglo-Celtic settlers who used to be filling the prisons in the homeland like the USA, South Africa, Canada or Australia.

It's an ethnic nation state like Ireland, Serbia, Mongolia or Vietnam.

@spruce112358 said
The UNSCOP 1947 partition plan was stupid. Of course it was rejected.

"...plan’s detractors considered the proposed plan to be pro-Zionist, with 56% of the land allocated to the Jewish state although the Palestinian Arab population numbered twice the Jewish population. The plan was celebrated by most Jews in Palestine and reluctantly accepted by the Jewish Agen ...[text shortened]... .

Basically none of what you are posting about the Arab-Israeli conflict is unbiased or accurate.

You landownership information is not factual at all.

A full table of respective land ownership at the time of the proposed UNSCOP partition in 1948 is given below (research source links follow at the end):
​
7.4% Jewish ownership (direct or through Jewish land funds).
11.6% Arab-Palestinian owner-residents.
6.9% Foreign owners, mostly Arab or prior Ottoman owners.
44.1% State-owned Public land.
26.5% State-owned/feudal-system leased land (Miri)
3.5% Religious trusts (Islamic Waqf, Greek Orthodox Church)

https://booksand-ebooks.com/political-commentary/israel-palestine-land-division

Also the Arab population did not own Palestine as you keep implying. They never governed Palestine. They just lived there under the governance of several Empires.

The land division was fair since much of the 56 % given to Israel was useless desert which nobody wanted. The fact that the Jews took the desert and made it bloom is to their credit. At that time nobody wanted it.

@spruce112358 said

These are all excellent reasons to reject. Subsequently, the Zionists resorted to arms and took the land by force, ethnically cleansing the lands they wanted for their 'majority Jewish' state.

This is sensational nonsense, the kind of rubbish you hear from cluleess college dunces who dance in the streets shouting Free Palestine, Palestine will be free from the land to the sea. I though you were a bit more grounded and factual than that.

Here is what happened:
******************************************
On 14 May 1948, the day on which the British Mandate over Palestine expired, the Jewish People's Council gathered at the Tel Aviv Museum and approved a proclamation that declared the establishment of a Jewish state in Eretz Israel, to be known as the State of Israel. The declaration was made by David Ben-Gurion, the Executive Head of the World Zionist Organization.[38]

There was no mention of the borders of the new state other than that it was in Eretz Israel. An official cablegram from the Secretary-General of the League of Arab States to the UN Secretary-General on 15 May 1948 stated publicly that Arab Governments found "themselves compelled to intervene for the sole purpose of restoring peace and security and establishing law and order in Palestine" (Clause 10(e)). Further in Clause 10(e):

The Governments of the Arab States hereby confirm at this stage the view that had been repeatedly declared by them on previous occasions, such as the London Conference and before the United Nations mainly, the only fair and just solution to the problem of Palestine is the creation of United State of Palestine based upon the democratic principles ...

That day, the armies of Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, Jordan and Iraq invaded what had just ceased to be the British Mandate, marking the beginning of the 1948 Arab–Israeli War. The nascent Israeli Defense Force repulsed the Arab nations from part of the occupied territories, thus extending its borders beyond the original UNSCOP partition

***********************************************
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab%E2%80%93Israeli_conflict#:~:text=That%20day%2C%20the%20armies%20of,the%201948%20Arab%E2%80%93Israeli%20War.

The surrounding Arab nations invaded the newly formed State of Israel. They started the war. There was no ethnic cleansing.

@rajk999 said
There was no ethnic cleansing.[/b]

Moron.

@shavixmir said
Moron.

Hey ... you getting boring. Nothing about yo mama, and incel and all the obscenities ? Are you finally getting some brain cells? Maybe in a couple years will have some information that contributes to the discussion. We will wait for you to catch up.

@athousandyoung said
It's not a former British colony full of Anglo-Celtic settlers who used to be filling the prisons in the homeland like the USA, South Africa, Canada or Australia.

It's an ethnic nation state like Ireland, Serbia, Mongolia or Vietnam.

Agreed, it is not that. It's a former British mandate full of Russian and Polish settlers. The ethnic Arab population was pushed out.

@rajk999 said
You landownership information is not factual at all.

[i]A full table of respective land ownership at the time of the proposed UNSCOP partition in 1948 is given below (research source links follow at the end):
​
7.4% Jewish ownership (direct or through Jewish land funds).
11.6% Arab-Palestinian owner-residents.
6.9% ...[text shortened]... t that the Jews took the desert and made it bloom is to their credit. At that time nobody wanted it.

OK, I've got you. You can't get out of this. You have posted that in 1948 "The State" owned 70.6% of Palestine (table re-ordered), and Arabs owned another 11.6% directly.

What "State" are you talking about? The British?

The region had a majority Arab population at the time, and the British owned most of the land. Sounds like the Arabs were patiently waiting for the British to GIVE THEM BACK THEIR LAND. Just like most indigenous peoples around the world!

But by the end of 1948, Russian and Polish migrants have 77% of the land (including much of Jerusalem) and many Arabs are expelled (or "fled" as some say. That's stupid as well. Nobody flees their home unless there is a threat.)

To quote the UN: "One of the two envisaged States proclaimed its independence as Israel and in the 1948 war involving neighbouring Arab States expanded to 77 percent of the territory of mandate Palestine, including the larger part of Jerusalem. Over half of the Palestinian Arab population fled or were expelled."

https://www.un.org/unispal/history/

That's fukked up, to use the technical term. I mean, you can keep trying to re-write history as "The peaceful Jews migrated with shovels and rakes to make the empty desert bloom and everyone hates them for it." But that narrative makes no sense and doesn't align with facts or events or ANY aspect of reality. NOBODY but Zionist apologists buy that.

44.1% State-owned Public land.
26.5% State-owned/feudal-system leased land (Miri)
11.6% Arab-Palestinian owner-residents.
7.4% Jewish ownership (direct or through Jewish land funds).
6.9% Foreign owners, mostly Arab or prior Ottoman owners.
3.5% Religious trusts (Islamic Waqf, Greek Orthodox Church)

@rajk999 said
This is sensational nonsense, the kind of rubbish you hear from cluleess college dunces who dance in the streets shouting Free Palestine, Palestine will be free from the land to the sea. I though you were a bit more grounded and factual than that.

Here is what happened:
******************************************
[i]On 14 May 1948, the day on which the British Ma ...[text shortened]... invaded the newly formed State of Israel. They started the war. There was no ethnic cleansing.[/b]

Yeah. Surrounding Arab nations tried to stop the injustice of Palestinians losing their country to Russian and Polish migrants. Got that.

They were unsuccessful. Doesn't mean they were wrong.

@spruce112358 said
Yeah. Surrounding Arab nations tried to stop the injustice of Palestinians losing their country to Russian and Polish migrants. Got that.

They were unsuccessful. Doesn't mean they were wrong.

Well its called being grounded. Thats when you understand your place. It was never their country. The land was always occupied and owned by many different types of people, Jews, Europeans, Chinese and Arabs, and governed by the Romans, to the Ottomans to the British. So they are a stupid people. They aim is to kill Jews, and they are driven by hatred. No wonder they cannot succeed.

@spruce112358 said
OK, I've got you. You can't get out of this. You have posted that in 1948 "The State" owned 70.6% of Palestine (table re-ordered), and Arabs owned another 11.6% directly.

[b]What "State" are you talking about? The British?

The region had a majority Arab population at the time, and the British owned most of the land. Sounds like the Arabs were patiently waiting for ...[text shortened]... toman owners.
3.5% Religious trusts (Islamic Waqf, Greek Orthodox Church)

Nonsense. It was a British Overseas Territory. The State OWNS IT. Not the Arabs. People own land which they purchased or which they inherited from others, or which by virtue of their history have been living there for generations. The rest of the land in this case over 70% was State land owned by the British Empire. Thats how it works.

You are mistaken if you really think Arabs owned everything and were entitled to everything.

No wonder these fools called Palestinians cannot live in peace. They are a warring nation, full of hatred to people around them. They cannot settle with any nation and they make themselves a nuisance wherever they go.

@spruce112358 said
Agreed, it is not that. It's a former British mandate full of Russian and Polish settlers. The ethnic Arab population was pushed out.

Pushed out because they love war. Their charter says they aim to kill Jews. They are the ones attempting ethnic cleansing. Serves them F...ing right. They get no pity from me.

@rajk999 said
Well its called being grounded. Thats when you understand your place. It was never their country. The land was always occupied and owned by many different types of people, Jews, Europeans, Chinese and Arabs, and governed by the Romans, to the Ottomans to the British. So they are a stupid people. They aim is to kill Jews, and they are driven by hatred. No wonder they cannot succeed.

It was always their country. They live there.

"So they are a stupid people".

Dude, are you listening to yourself right now?

@rajk999 said
Pushed out because they love war. Their charter says they aim to kill Jews. They are the ones attempting ethnic cleansing. Serves them F...ing right. They get no pity from me.

Palestinian Arabs want justice, not war.

I told you - the Hamas Charter has never been put to a referendum so it simply a plank of a political party. It means nothing. AND it has been changed since. So you've got nothing left to point at.

Palestinian Arabs have actually asked for nothing more than to vote for their government in the land where they live.

100% reasonable. Every country and every person on the planet should support them in this.