Originally posted by eljefejesus
Why do you need force to be insured? If everyone wants it, let them save and invest in their healthcare themselves. Why doesn't the government just do a subsidy?

Well, one very good reason is that people don't walk in emergency rooms uninsured like they do in the US. This keeps costs of insurance down, since more people are paying. Furthermore, it's to protect stupid people against themselves since everyone can afford insurance here.

Originally posted by KazetNagorra
Well, one very good reason is that people don't walk in emergency rooms uninsured like they do in the US. This keeps costs of insurance down, since more people are paying. Furthermore, it's to protect stupid people against themselves since everyone can afford insurance here.

What about illegals? I wonder if they will get fined thousands of dollars and/or do jail time for not having insurance? My guess is that it will only be legal residents that get penalized in this way. Crazy, huh?

Originally posted by whodey
What about illegals? I wonder if they will get fined thousands of dollars and/or do jail time for not having insurance? My guess is that it will only be legal residents that get penalized in this way. Crazy, huh?

Well, that is not crazy and the problem can be easily solved by reducing the amount of illegals.

Originally posted by KazetNagorra
Well, that is not crazy and the problem can be easily solved by reducing the amount of illegals.

LOL. Reduce the amount of legals? How can we do that?

Originally posted by whodey
LOL. Reduce the amount of [il]legals? How can we do that?

Either by issuing passports or by sending them back.

Originally posted by KazetNagorra
Either by issuing passports or by sending them back.

But they don't do that, do they? So how are we suppose to fix this problem until the problem of illegal immigration is fixed? You see, government only wants to move from one massive entitlement pollicy to the other without fixing the messes made by their later policies.

As a side note, why does it even matter if they are citizens? I thought the idea behind universal coverage was that it was the "right" and "humane" thing to do? I didn't think it had so much to do with affordability as it was a human right.

Originally posted by whodey
But they don't do that, do they? So how are we suppose to fix this problem until the problem of illegal immigration is fixed? You see, government only wants to move from one massive entitlement pollicy to the other without fixing the messes made by their later policies.

As a side note, why does it even matter if they are citizens? I thought the idea beh ...[text shortened]... ng to do? I didn't think it had so much to do with affordability as it was a human right.

I think the main idea behind universal coverage is that it provides better health care at a lower price.

And illegals are already getting free emergency care, so no change there.

Originally posted by whodey
What about illegals? I wonder if they will get fined thousands of dollars and/or do jail time for not having insurance? My guess is that it will only be legal residents that get penalized in this way. Crazy, huh?

If we're gonna have an open debate with realistic perspectives, the undocumented population is not single handedly driving up costs, in fact they have low rates of healthcare participation due to fear of deportation, and overall they use less costs and tend to be younger and healthier.

It is the elderly and those near death that drive up costs highly.

Everyone who is forced to get health insurance by being tracked can also be fined/punished. It's both or neither. How could anyone track undocumented immigrants to force them to get coverage but not to tax them for it??

Originally posted by KazetNagorra
Well, one very good reason is that people don't walk in emergency rooms uninsured like they do in the US. This keeps costs of insurance down, since more people are paying. Furthermore, it's to protect stupid people against themselves since everyone can afford insurance here.

Protecting people against themselves... happens an aweful lot in Europe, doesn't it?

Originally posted by KazetNagorra
Why would anyone not want insurance?

That is incidental---suppose I don't want insurance because it's against my religion? Or because I think I'm Superman and don't need it? Or on general principles? The point is one should NOT be forced to spend THEIR money on something THEY do not want.

Originally posted by PinkFloyd
That is incidental---suppose I don't want insurance because it's against my religion? Or because I think I'm Superman and don't need it? Or on general principles? The point is one should NOT be forced to spend THEIR money on something THEY do not want.

How about the fact it is overpriced.

Originally posted by whodey
Better yet, why would the government mandate you have it? I think they full well know some people will buck the system, otherwise, why have such an outrageous law?

Perhaps they prefer outsourcing their medical care to another country? Perhaps they are young and healthy and would prefer to spend all their income getting themselves financially established? ...[text shortened]... happen if they locked up all the tax payers. Then we would all have free health care to boot!!

Because whodey I'm paying for it so quit your bitching 🙂 .

Originally posted by zeeblebot
stewart is the pinnacle of liberal wisdom .... next to colbert ... the twin peaks ....

comprehensive insurance is not mandatory. comprehensive insures your own property, like health insurance insures your body.

liability is mandatory. cars kill people regularly, and liabilty pays the bills of the guy you hit.

When you go to the ER and can't pay your bill that's liability.

Originally posted by PinkFloyd
That is incidental---suppose I don't want insurance because it's against my religion? Or because I think I'm Superman and don't need it? Or on general principles? The point is one should NOT be forced to spend THEIR money on something THEY do not want.

That's too strong. I don't want to pay for liability insurance on my car but I must. Hardcore Libertarians seem to struggle with the idea of externalities.

Originally posted by joe beyser
How about the fact it is overpriced.

A big part of the reason it is overpriced is because healthy people opt out. This increases the risk in the remaining pool. Since healthy people cannot credibly seperate themselves from the unhealthy, insurance companies cannot price each person according to their inividual risk. As a result they must use large pools and the law of large numbers. Classic adverse selection.