Originally posted by @mott-the-hoopleThe NHS isn't perfect. Never will be.
And liberals want this?
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/feb/08/patients-suffering-direct-result-nhs-wait-time-failures
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/social-care-vacancies-audit-office-11988585
But it is one of the best (if not THE best) healthcare systems in the world.
The NHS runs on far less money per capita than
the US system. AND delivers far better outcomes.
I'm sure I've posted proof of this here as have
others so I will not justify those claims again.
But go search and try and disprove me.
To be completely fair... the US system has a lot of market inhibitors that very drastically impact the industry.
It would not be accurate to describe the US health care market as free market, and it would not be accurate to describe it as socialistic. It truly is a very, very deeply mixed system and it has been, to some degree, designed to fail.
I have heard it said that Obamacare (or the Affordable Care Act) was utterly problem riddled from the moment of rollout and was not sustainable. One of the reasons for this, though, was because everyone suspected that Clinton would have become the President and therefore they could just socialize the system further and march towards a final destination.
So, what can you say about "the free market" system? I'm not sure. We haven't properly tried it for decades now.
But let me also say this... the healthcare systems in older times were never truly free market either as the bulk of people literally just depended on charity, and the bulk of doctors and healers were on retainer from Nobles who would let them serve regular people as an act of charity.
The Church very much was insturmental in the development and provision of healthcare to the masses.
Traditionally, a lot of people did not conceive of this as a market.
Should we do so now?
Not sure.
But one thing is for sure: whenever the government is involved in runnign something that becomes potentially exceedingly complicated there are a lot of issues concerning austerity within service provision. We have to have realistic expectations.
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Originally posted by @mott-the-hoopleNationalised healthcare is the best way to go. It is, or should be, a civil right to have access to your county’s high quality healthcare system. Similarly with education.
And liberals want this?
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/feb/08/patients-suffering-direct-result-nhs-wait-time-failures
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/social-care-vacancies-audit-office-11988585
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Originally posted by @jacob-vervilleThe inception of the National Health Service on July 5th 1948 was IMO one of the proudest days in UK history, it was the climax of true political social vision coupled with a commitment to change which was resolute irrespective of the cost. Social vision is like that, it requires a desire to move forward that is driven not by economic forces but by an energy which comes from a willingness to see a fundamental good in something that is worth paying for. Obama had vision and it is an absolute travesty that Trump has overturned The Affordable Health Act. Why oh why would a nation not want affordable healthcare for all its citizens. Astonishing.
It I have heard it said that Obamacare (or the Affordable Care Act) was utterly problem riddled from the moment of rollout and was not sustainable.
Originally posted by @divegeesterOn the one hand you say economics don't come into it on the other hand you employ economics even if it's one of the worst suckers only need apply propaganda misnomers going haha the a f f o r d a b l e c a r e.
The inception of the National Health Service on July 5th 1948 was IMO one of the proudest days in UK history, it was the climax of true political social vision coupled with a commitment to change which was resolute irrespective of the cost. Social vision is like that, it requires a desire to move forward that is driven not by economic forces but by an e ...[text shortened]... Act. Why oh why would a nation not want affordable healthcare for all its citizens. Astonishing.
If you thought healthcare was expensive, wait until it's free.
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Originally posted by @wajomaWhere did I say “economics doesn’t come into it”?
On the one hand you say economics don't come into it on the other hand you employ economics even if it's one of the worst suckers only need apply propaganda misnomers going haha the a f f o r d a b l e c a r e.
If you thought healthcare was expensive, wait until it's free.
Note: doesn’t, not don’t.
Originally posted by @mott-the-hoopleThat's not what they want, they want you to believe in their dream feeling fantasies and if you resist they'll enlist the services of state thugs to make you conform. They don't care about waiting lists and health outcomes, all they care about is forcing their ideals on unwilling fellow citizens, being in control, and getting others to help them prop up some kind of inflated view that they know what's best for everyone.
And liberals want this?
Originally posted by @divegeesterdivegeester "i r r e s p e c t i v e o f t h e c o s t"
Where did I say “economics doesn’t come into it”?
Note: doesn’t, not don’t.
🙄
You're so blinded by the propaganda you don't even realise it's pooting out of your mouth
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Originally posted by @wajomaCost is only one aspect of “economics” or of a project. It’s also relative and is a factor of its own return overtime, wouldn’t you agree?
divegeester [b]"i r r e s p e c t i v e o f t h e c o s t"
🙄
You're so blinded by the propaganda you don't even realise it's pooting out of your mouth[/b]
No one is saying it’s is “free” as you claimed in your previous post.
Originally posted by @divegeesterOhh plenty of people are throwing around the 'free' word, it doesn't occur around here so much now because they've had their knuckles rapped too many times.
Coat is only one aspect of “economics” or of a project. It’s also relative and is a factor of its own return overtime, wouldn’t you agree?
No one is saying it’s is “free” as you claimed in your previous post.
Here's the factor, all those that believe in the affordable healthcare act band together voluntarily and form your own organisation. See how simple that is, everyone's happy.
Funny how cost is of so little concern when you're dipping your hand in other peoples pockets.
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Originally posted by @wajomaI meant I am not saying free, I didn’t say free, I’m not claiming it’s free, it’s not free, very little in life is free,
Ohh plenty of people are throwing around the 'free' word, it doesn't occur around here so much now because they've had their knuckles rapped too many times.
Here's the factor, all those that believe in the affordable healthcare act band together voluntarily and form your own organisation. See how simple that is, everyone's happy.
Funny how cost is of so little concern when you're dipping your hand in other peoples pockets.
How’s that.
Originally posted by @divegeesterNoted, nice going, thumbs up.
I meant I am not saying free, I didn’t say free, I’m not claiming it’s free, it’s not free, very little in life is free,
How’s that.