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    11 Jan '21 17:24
    @wildgrass said
    “They’re ruthless, and it’s time that somebody did something about it. If you don’t fight like hell, you’re not going to have a country anymore.”
    is he talking about the non-violent peaceful protest kind of war / death in this quote?

    “If a Democrat Presidential Candidate had an Election Rigged & Stolen, the Democrat Senators would consider it an act of war, and fight to the death. Mitch & the Republicans do NOTHING, just want to let it pass. NO FIGHT!”
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    11 Jan '21 17:26
    @metal-brain said
    Same thing the left said about him for 4 years. Irrelevant and a gross double standard.
    It's the "we're not going to stand for that" part that is incitement. The left didn't do that. No one fought like hell against their own government for Hillary Clinton, because she didn't ask her supporters to.
  3. Subscribershavixmir
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    11 Jan '21 17:26
    @metal-brain said
    The Senate has rules that don't allow impeachment to move that fast, kind of like the SCOTUS does too. Trump couldn't get a hearing from SCOTUS and democrats can't get an impeachment for about the same reason, rules.

    Pence will not allege he is incompetent so it will not happen. They are trying hard though. The corporate news media is showing that clip of Trump support ...[text shortened]... unless Pence changes his mind and risks a republican backlash that may hinder his political career.
    The house of representatives can’t hold a vote to impeach him? I’m sure they can.

    And then the senate can take its time about whether to punish him or not. That doesn’t need to be whilst he is in office.
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    11 Jan '21 17:32
    @wildgrass said
    “They’re ruthless, and it’s time that somebody did something about it. If you don’t fight like hell, you’re not going to have a country anymore.”
    Pelosi and the squad are ruthless because they know Medicare for all would save lives and they would rather let people die from advanced cancer.

    We need to fight like hell for Medicare for all!

    Is that inciting violence? Nope!
    If his calling for an insurrection was evident with that statement why didn't anyone say so until after the protests turned violent? Did she want it to happen?
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    11 Jan '21 17:33
    @shavixmir said
    The house of representatives can’t hold a vote to impeach him? I’m sure they can.

    And then the senate can take its time about whether to punish him or not. That doesn’t need to be whilst he is in office.
    Wrong. The constitution doesn't specify that. Read the article. Dershowitz explain it well.
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    11 Jan '21 17:35
    @wildgrass said
    It's the "we're not going to stand for that" part that is incitement. The left didn't do that. No one fought like hell against their own government for Hillary Clinton, because she didn't ask her supporters to.
    People are dying because we don't have Medicare for all.
    We're not going to stand for that!

    Am I inciting violence?
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    11 Jan '21 17:46
    @metal-brain said
    People are dying because we don't have Medicare for all.
    We're not going to stand for that!

    Am I inciting violence?
    If you said variations of that message with "you must learn to fight like hell" and "act of war" and "we are allowed to play by a very different set of rules" for weeks and weeks and then you said "we're not going to stand for it" to a mob of your supporters and then that mob immediately violently stormed the US capitol and killed people to interrupt a hearing regarding Medicare for all?

    Then yes, you definitely incited an insurrection. And I think conservatives would want you impeached.
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    11 Jan '21 17:55
    @metal-brain said
    You cannot impeach a private citizen, so why is Pelosi and all those other idiots trying to get republicans riled up with this talk that will never happen?

    Is Pelosi trying to anger republicans so there is more violence as a result? That is what it seems like. Pelosi is inciting violence by pretending they can impeach Trump when they know it is impossible.

    See how t ...[text shortened]... they have an excuse to suppress free speech and shoot down protestors even if they are not violent.
    He’s not going to be a private citizen, private citizens do not get 24hr protection and all the other perks that go with being an ex POTUS.
  9. Subscribershavixmir
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    11 Jan '21 18:141 edit
    @metal-brain said
    Wrong. The constitution doesn't specify that. Read the article. Dershowitz explain it well.
    Does the constitution specify it can’t?

    I can’t read the article.
    You do realise that impeachment is different than punishing for it?
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    11 Jan '21 18:24
    The Constitution’s Option for Impeachment After a President Leaves Office

    by Michael J. Gerhardt

    January 8, 2021

    Donald Trump did not end his presidency without raising yet another question about how he may be constitutionally accountable for his misconduct in office. With just under two weeks left before Joseph Biden’s inauguration as the forty-sixth president of the United States, it seems unlikely there is enough time for the Congress to fully consider impeaching Trump for his newest misdeeds, including urging Georgia officials to commit voter fraud and encouraging a mob of his followers to storm the Capitol. There is no doubt this misconduct qualifies as impeachable, as even the Wall Street Journal’s editorial board accepts. The question is whether a president may be impeached by the House or tried and convicted by the Senate after he has left office. It has never happened before in American history, but then no president until Trump spent his final days in office doing the kind of damage he has done — attacking the legitimacy of America’s democratic institutions and expressing his “love” for his followers who charged into Congress with guns and destroyed federal property in their quest to find his enemies and hold them accountable for not overturning the election results.

    The Constitution provides that the President “shall be removed from office on impeachment for, and conviction of, treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors,” but it says nothing about the timing of when the impeachment and trial may take place. That omission makes sense, since presidents – and any other impeachable officials – could commit impeachable offenses at any time while they are in office, including in their last months or days in their positions. It certainly makes no sense for presidents who commit misconduct late in their terms, or perhaps not discovered until late in their terms, to be immune from the one process the Constitution allows for barring them from serving in any other federal office or from receiving any federal pensions. What’s more, litigation or prosecutions might not be able to get at the misconduct, since the scope of impeachable offenses extends to misconduct that is not an actual crime. And what if that misconduct is not discovered until after a president leaves office? There may be no practical means for holding him accountable for such misconduct, especially if he is regarded as having been immune from any criminal prosecution or inquiry while he was in office. Being president is not a safe harbor from political and legal accountability. This is why John Quincy Adams proclaimed on the floor of the House that, “I hold myself, so long as I have the breath of life in my body, amenable to impeachment by this House for everything I did during the time I held any public office.” (Michael J. Gerhardt, The Federal Impeachment Process: A Constitutional and Historical Analyses 80 (2d edition 2000) (citation omitted)) Adams’s suggestion was that any impeachable official remained subject to that process well after they left office, not just presidents but those who abused power while in office.

    The principal argument against allowing post-presidential impeachment is that the Constitution does not make private citizens subject to impeachment. The founders rejected the British model that allowed Parliament to impeach anyone, except for the King, and so they limited impeachment to certain public officials, including presidents. Subjecting a president to impeachment after he has returned to his private life would, seemingly according to this logic, violate this basic constitutional principle. (Indeed, the Constitution itself applies only to governmental not private action.)

    The problem with this argument, however, is that presidents and the other officials who are subject to impeachment are not like the rest of us. Once they leave office and return to their private lives, they are still ex-presidents and former officials who may have committed impeachable offenses in office. A core principle of the Constitution is that no one, not even the president, is above the law, and an abuse of power, by definition, is a violation of the Constitution, the supreme law of the land. What’s more, the special penalties upon conviction in impeachment are designed to protect the republic from the very type of people who have abused public office in such a grave manner that they should never have the opportunity to be entrusted with public power again. It would make no sense for former officials, or ones who step down just in time, to escape that remedial mechanism. It should accordingly go without saying that if an impeachment begins when an individual is in office, the process may surely continue after they resign or otherwise depart.

    Understandably, members of Congress and the American people might lose the appetite for subjecting a president to impeachment once he has left office for good. But that is a political choice not a constitutional directive. A president who leaves office and retains the potential to return someday should still be subject as well to the unique processes set forth in the Constitution to sanction his abuse of his office. To haul a former president back before the tribunal of Congress when it has uncovered misconduct makes eminent sense when the only permissible sanctions might be those that the Constitution provides. That misconduct invariably calls for a special remedy, and the Constitution provides that in disabling the president who has committed such misconduct of ever being able again to serve as president or any other federal office and continuing to benefit financially from his time as president. Presidents are not above the law, not when they are in office, and not when they leave office. That kind of accountability comes with the job, a job Donald Trump seems to want so badly that he’s breaking the Constitution to try to keep it.

    https://www.justsecurity.org/74107/the-constitutions-option-for-impeachment-after-a-president-leaves-office/
  11. Subscribershavixmir
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    11 Jan '21 18:40
    I just love it when I’m right.
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    11 Jan '21 20:04
    @metal-brain said
    Wrong. The constitution doesn't specify that. Read the article. Dershowitz explain it well.
    Trump is currently in office and thus can be impeached. Moreover as the penalties for impeachment include more than simple removal from office, there is no reason a Senate trial couldn't continue after his term of office.

    Dershowitz is not considered a constitutional scholar and many of his assertions regarding such matters have little support among experts.

    I regard impeachment at this time as rather pointless and a distraction that will consume the Senate's time unnecessarily when there is important business to attend to, but the assertion in the title of this thread is flat out wrong.
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    12 Jan '21 00:27
    In 1876, William Belknap was impeached by a unanimous vote of the House despite having already resigned as Secretary of War.
  14. Subscribershavixmir
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    12 Jan '21 04:20
    Who’d a thunk that Metal Brain and his sources were wrong?
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    12 Jan '21 06:15
    @wildgrass said
    If you said variations of that message with "you must learn to fight like hell" and "act of war" and "we are allowed to play by a very different set of rules" for weeks and weeks and then you said "we're not going to stand for it" to a mob of your supporters and then that mob immediately violently stormed the US capitol and killed people to interrupt a hearing regarding Med ...[text shortened]... hen yes, you definitely incited an insurrection. And I think conservatives would want you impeached.
    Even if it did not result in violence?
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