Originally posted by @mghrn55
Thanks for dropping by.
I see you haven't tossed a game in 128 days. 😛

Bet he's tossed robbie alot in the last 128 days

Originally posted by @shortcircuit
Listen, I have heard enough of this. How can you change a rule "after the fact" and say the result would have been that way if that rule was played? Don't you understand that we don't care WHAT rules are employed, as long as they don't allow cheating and as long as they are uniform and are instituted at the first day of the year...not in the middle.
...[text shortened]... That is my position, but I only speak for one clan. You are certainly entitled to your opinion.

It's not that I want to reward the losing clan
I just want the proper result to be recognised
How can a team that loses 6 - 4 end up with the same result as team that loses 10 - 0
NOT FAIR
If you want to make it double points to the winner or even triple points to the winner
I can understand that but those 4 players who played well in the losing clan deserve something for their efforts or they may just as well resign every game
At least they will get something on their rating

Originally posted by @padger
It's not that I want to reward the losing clan
I just want the proper result to be recognised
How can a team that loses 6 - 4 end up with the same result as team that loses 10 - 0
NOT FAIR
If you want to make it double points to the winner or even triple points to the winner
I can understand that but those 4 players who played well in the losing clan ...[text shortened]... rts or they may just as well resign every game
At least they will get something on their rating

Refer to my proposal. It addresses this issue.

Originally posted by @padger
It's not that I want to reward the losing clan
I just want the proper result to be recognised
How can a team that loses 6 - 4 end up with the same result as team that loses 10 - 0
NOT FAIR
If you want to make it double points to the winner or even triple points to the winner
I can understand that but those 4 players who played well in the losing clan ...[text shortened]... rts or they may just as well resign every game
At least they will get something on their rating

With an aggregate system a team that wins 6-4 would get 2 points and a team that wins 10-0 ten points.
Each player must try to win his games to gain points and to avoid a winning clan getting more points if his clan loses the challenge
How can you make it fairer than that?

Originally posted by @venda
With an aggregate system a team that wins 6-4 would get 2 points and a team that wins 10-0 ten points.
Each player must try to win his games to gain points and to avoid a winning clan getting more points if his clan loses the challenge
How can you make it fairer than that?

It's very similar to my proposal but I feel that the clan that wins the challenge deserves some reward for winning the challenge overall. There also has to be a penalty (negative points) to the losing clan otherwise it will just come down to the clan that issues the most challenges as the winner.

Originally posted by @padger
I can understand that but those 4 players who played well in the losing clan deserve something for their efforts or they may just as well resign every game
At least they will get something on their rating

The 4 players do get something for their efforts in their individual stats in their profile and in their Individual Clan Forums. Those wins don't just vanish they are are counted, just not the way you would like to see them counted.

-VR

Originally posted by @padger
It's not that I want to reward the losing clan
I just want the proper result to be recognised
How can a team that loses 6 - 4 end up with the same result as team that loses 10 - 0
NOT FAIR
If you want to make it double points to the winner or even triple points to the winner
I can understand that but those 4 players who played well in the losing clan ...[text shortened]... rts or they may just as well resign every game
At least they will get something on their rating

If 10 players on a football team play well and one player stinks, they all still lose, right?
Ever seen an individual player have a career game, yet his team loses??
It is a team sport. There is no "I" in team.
You all win or you all lose, together.
I have played two crap games where I got hammered in a challenge, yet we won the challenge.
Your teammates pick you up, just like you pick your teammates who are sucking at the time.
It is all part of the game.

Originally posted by @padger
It's not that I want to reward the losing clan
I just want the proper result to be recognised
How can a team that loses 6 - 4 end up with the same result as team that loses 10 - 0
NOT FAIR
If you want to make it double points to the winner or even triple points to the winner
I can understand that but those 4 players who played well in the losing clan ...[text shortened]... rts or they may just as well resign every game
At least they will get something on their rating

Current system we have now is pretty close to sports world.
Take baseball. A team wins 1-0 or 11-0 and gets awarded a win.
Losing team by above scores is awarded a point on the loss side.

There is no partial award or penalty here.
A win is a win. A loss is a loss.
Subtracting points for lost challenges is simply a departure from the old Gross point scoring system (before my time)
which simply rewarded challenge volume by any clan instead of won-loss record.

Under current system, you still have to play a lot of challenges to win.
But you have to win more than you lose to capture the title !!

Which btw, is where Carrobie's clan ELO fantasy fell flat !!
Russ's beta model had a clan with only 12 completed challenges in 1st place, if you recall.

Originally posted by @shortcircuit
If 10 players on a football team play well and one player stinks, they all still lose, right?
Ever seen an individual player have a career game, yet his team loses??
It is a team sport. There is no "I" in team.
You all win or you all lose, together.
I have played two crap games where I got hammered in a challenge, yet we won the challenge.
Your te ...[text shortened]... up, just like you pick your teammates who are sucking at the time.
It is all part of the game.

There's a counter argument to that Fred.
I play crown green bowls which is also a team game.
There's various formats but this example is 6 players in a team where the winner is first to 21
Each player plays an opposing player and there's 1 point for the winner of each game
However there's also 2 points for the overall aggregate.
Therefore if you are losing your game there's still an incentive to score as many points as possible because each score contributes towards the overall aggregate.
You may lose your game but your points may just win your team the aggregate.
I think I know why you are against an aggregate system my friend.It goes against Metallica's tactics of conceding games when the challenge is won or lost.
I don't want to get into a slanging match with you because I think you are a decent sort but isn't that the case?

Originally posted by @venda
There's a counter argument to that Fred.
I play crown green bowls which is also a team game.
There's various formats but this example is 6 players in a team where the winner is first to 21
Each player plays an opposing player and there's 1 point for the winner of each game
However there's also 2 points for the overall aggregate.
Therefore if you are losi ...[text shortened]... et into a slanging match with you because I think you are a decent sort but isn't that the case?

No Dave, not at all. As I have said on many occasions, and repeatedly proved it through the years, we will play with any set of rules as long as they are equal to all and started at the BEGINNING of a year when everyone is zeroed out. We will modify our tactics accordingly to the rules.

The part I like best about the current system is the winner takes all aspect.

Originally posted by @shortcircuit
If 10 players on a football team play well and one player stinks, they all still lose, right?
Ever seen an individual player have a career game, yet his team loses??
It is a team sport. There is no "I" in team.
You all win or you all lose, together.
I have played two crap games where I got hammered in a challenge, yet we won the challenge.
Your te ...[text shortened]... up, just like you pick your teammates who are sucking at the time.
It is all part of the game.

The winning team in this argument gets 3 points regardless of how many goals they scored
The losing team get no points regardless of how many goals they conceded.However their goal difference is changed according to how many each team scored
They do not get minus points

Originally posted by @padger
The winning team in this argument gets 3 points regardless of how many goals they scored
The losing team get no points regardless of how many goals they conceded.However their goal difference is changed according to how many each team scored
They do not get minus points

There are no minus points because every team plays the same number of games.
In an informal clan scenario that is not the case.
In fact the gross points total illustrates this.

A team can lose more challenges than they win and still contend for the title.

In fact you can look at this year's standings and find a clan on the last page when sorted by net points and on the first page when sorted by gross points.

I won't name the clan.
You can easily find it.

Originally posted by @mghrn55
There are no minus points because every team plays the same number of games.
In an informal clan scenario that is not the case.
In fact the gross points total illustrates this.

A team can lose more challenges than they win and still contend for the title.

In fact you can look at this year's standings and find a clan on the last page when sorted by ...[text shortened]... the first page when sorted by gross points.

I won't name the clan.
You can easily find it.

Yes got the Clan but at least they are playing to the spirit of joining in

What would be wrong with the most Clan games won + Most challenges won
This would be a way of encouraging more clan interaction and give a better value than the one at present

Originally posted by @padger
Yes got the Clan but at least they are playing to the spirit of joining in

What would be wrong with the most Clan games won + Most challenges won
This would be a way of encouraging more clan interaction and give a better value than the one at present

padger,

You feel like you've said all the same things before?

A vote was done the case is pretty much closed.

Repeating what has already been said doesn't really accomplish anything.

Nothing wrong with the present system...Remember we voted on it?

EDIT: I should have said the Clan Leaders Voted!

-VR

Originally posted by @very-rusty
padger,

You feel like you've said all the same things before?

A vote was done the case is pretty much closed.

Repeating what has already been said doesn't really accomplish anything.

Nothing wrong with the present system...Remember we voted on it?

EDIT: I should have said the Clan Leaders Voted!

-VR

I wouldn't say there's nothing wrong with the system but yes, you are correct in that it was voted on by our leaders so anything we say here is probably irrelevant.