Disappering Clans - What can help?

Skill based match making guarantees a 50/50 win/loss average (not counting draws)... so nobody should have a 60 or 70 percent winning record in clan games. I've already went over the stats of some players before and I don't care to prove my point again because nothing will change for the better.

The point system is wrong.

All a team needs to win the match is one extra win?
I just looked at two 10 point matches from a leading team.
4 to 3 and 6 to 3
That team was awarded 10 points each, so 20 points.

It should have been 4 points for the winner and 3 for the loser in the first match and 6 to the winner and 4 to the loser in the second match.

That would prevent resigning because resigning on purpose would just give points to the other team.

And why are losing teams being deducted points?

Keep it simple with this...⬇️

#1 Separate clan rating to help prevent sandbagging.

#2. If you win a clan game your team scores a point.
If you lose a clan game the other team scores a point. That would prevent the people who resign when they see the match is won.

Technically they could still resign or lose on purpose to drop their rating but that gives points to the other team... but if # 1 and # 2 are enforced then people only have to look at the results of the matches to see who the chronic sandbaggers are.

Why am I even doing this again?

The top teams don't want anything to change so just let the feature die already.

@booger said
Why am I even doing this again?

The top teams don't want anything to change so just let the feature die already.

Booger, Here is a simple solution. If you don't like the way things are and not all of us do either put up with it or don't play. The way the points are awarded have been talked about so much it really has become boring. The majority will get what the majority want most of the time.

-VR

@booger said
Why am I even doing this again?

The top teams don't want anything to change so just let the feature die already.

At least you switched away from your stupid mghrn fake id.

But what is really badly wrong with the current system ?
The disparities aren't there because some people are supposedly sandbagging.
Look at the standings, even just page 1.
I see a clan with a record 6-1-1. 8 challenges total. Should they be winning.
In Russ's failed pilot in 2016, that actually happened. The first place clan played 12 challenges all year.
Is that what you want.

I agree that having a separate clan rating is a good idea. But it will also have it's problems, the biggest one being startup.
What rating do you assign the players ?
And it is likely a lot of work.
And if Metallica wins a yearly title after that, the whining will start all over again.

But people like you get the ideas from tossing false accusations. Which is already a bad place to start.
And that won't get Russ interested. Russ has put in a policing protocol (including suspensions and points adjustment) which is better than nothing.

Best way to go forward with this feature is to sell this product instead of always trying to kill it.

@very-rusty said
Booger, Here is a simple solution. If you don't like the way things are and not all of us do either put up with it or don't play. The way the points are awarded have been talked about so much it really has become boring. The majority will get what the majority want most of the time.

-VR

I'm not the one creating threads about the problems with the clan feature. I'm just responding to them.

The majority has left the clan feature so think about that.
Have you seen the clan directory lately?
Clearly the majority has left.

@mghrn55

That other account isn't me meathead.

What's wrong with the clan feature? It's dying.
You don't care because you don't mind being at the top.

If every game win is a point then it's fair.
The team with the most points at the end of the year wins.

You're using your current rating to play clan games so why can't your current rating be your starting clan rating? Duh...
Obviously you can't start at a fixed low number.

You upset a seperate clan rating would increase your players ratings and they would have to face tougher opposition? That would definitely bring them down to the 50/50 mark quickly.
The only people who should have a disparity are new accounts finding their rating. After that... everyone should end up close to the 50/50 mark.

Awarding one team all of the points just because they got one extra win isn't fair.
Deducting points for a loss is ridiculous.
Once the challenge has been won the rest can throw games and still get the team points.

You clearly know nothing about skill based match making and how it forces a 50/50 win/loss ratio.
Some of your players are way above the 50 percent mark.

@mghrn55

You have players that have 300 more wins than losses? On guy has 500 more wins than losses...


That math is impossible Their rating should have gone up drastically. Oh wait...they lost regular games which keeps their rating down 🙄
How convenient...

Anyone who read this far...

The clan feature is dead.

Losing on average a whole page of teams per year.
Once long ago it had 20 pages of teams.

Last year 5

This year 4

It's over. Unwillingness to change has killed it.

@booger said
The point system is wrong.

All a team needs to win the match is one extra win?
I just looked at two 10 point matches from a leading team.
4 to 3 and 6 to 3
That team was awarded 10 points each, so 20 points.

It should have been 4 points for the winner and 3 for the loser in the first match and 6 to the winner and 4 to the loser in the second match.

That would prevent resigning because resigning on purpose would just give points to the other team.

i think the winning clan should get points only for the games they won, the losing team none, in a 10 match challenge it does seem odd that if it finishes 6-4 you get 10 points as you only won 6 games so 6 points, none for the losing team, awarding points for all matches will just help the larger teams more as they can lose a large challenge and still rake in lots of points

@Sands-Al

That too, well said.

A 6 to 4 win should only be 2 points if you went with that system. In my opinion.
The number of extra wins being the points won.

That way...if you have a guy resigning or "losing" because he sees the match has been won would actually be taking points away from his own team.

Edit...That system with a seperate clan rating is much better than the system used now.

@mghrn55 I think the way you do the start up of clan ratings is you lock the existing overall rating and then adjust it just for clan games. It will quickly become what it supposed to be.

@lstcyr

Exactly.

I can only repeat that the clan list which is what it essentially it is can never be regarded as a league table.
All people ever look at is the net points table and then talk about "who will win"
How can a clan that has played say 300 games in the year be compared to a clan that has only played 50?
The only way to create anything like a league table is to use wins/games played with a minimum number of games played to qualify for inclusion.
There is no such feature on here so, regardless of the sandbagging accusations and such it's not possible to find the "most successful" clan.
I did such a calculation years ago (wins/games) using the first page of the clan list and the results were significantly different.