09 Nov 11
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Originally posted by whodeyOh, there are some real legal experts at ESPN.
I've been watching some ESPN today and the shocker is the commentators seem to agree with Whodey. Sure, Joe Pa may not be in trouble legally, but ethically he is nothing more than a hole in the wall. How exactly could he do nothing more than alert one person in the program and watch that same person continue to be apart of the university for years on end?
...[text shortened]... down yesterday. In addition, for the first time Whodey is a Cornhusker fan come this Saturday.
Ever heard of any of these Federal Laws that prohibit the distribution of employee
information?
Privacy Act of 1974
Employee Privacy Act
HIPPA
ERISA
All of these acts prohibit the distribution of most types of employee records.
So, your contention that Joe Pa, who handled the matter through Penn State HR
as it is specifically called for him to do, was "ethically wrong" somehow?
Who should he have told where he would not have violated Sandusky's rights
and been subject to legal action? He could not speak to the media. He could not
speak to the parents, he really could not even speak to the police, unless he was
instructed to do so by PSU officials due to a criminal investigation. There was no
criminal investigation, so this topic is moot.
The righteous indignation is crap. If Joe Pa had gone forward, and the allegations
proved to be false, Joe has ruined another man's reputation.
What speaks volumes about Joe Pa's character is that there has been no rules
infractions during his reign. There have been no thugs breaking into to people's
houses, beating their wives/girlfriends, grades infractions for players who are
active. None of his players ever tried to sell memorabilia or trade it for tattoos.
The guy is clean, unlike your hero Jim Tressel. Sorry, but Tressel knew and did nothing.
He didn't even turn the incident in for review. He whitewashed it.
He knew he needed Pryor and his buddies. End of sermon.
He resigned before the heat got too high and he was going to be deeper than he was.
Joe Pa is an institution. You never heard of anyone trying to run Bear Bryant out,
but what he did to those kids in Junction bordered on criminal. Those kids became
a team though, and they all defend their coach. If it happened today, he would be
out in a heartbeat. Anyone remember Mike Leach's cruel punishment of making a
kid (who happened to have a famous daddy) sit in a dark closet for two hours?
Leach got run for it.
Wake up and smell the coffee. You are living in a dream world.
EDIT you have been a corncob fan for years. Might as well root for the Huskers.
09 Nov 11
Originally posted by shortcircuitSC, it is my understanding that Paterno was given an eyewitness account of Sandusky engaging in anal sex with a ten year old boy in the Penn State locker room.
Oh, there are some real legal experts at ESPN.
Ever heard of any of these Federal Laws that prohibit the distribution of employee
information?
Privacy Act of 1974
Employee Privacy Act
HIPPA
ERISA
All of these acts prohibit the distribution of most types of employee records.
So, your contention that Joe Pa, who handled the matter through Pe ...[text shortened]...
[b]EDIT you have been a corncob fan for years. Might as well root for the Huskers.[/b]
Surely merely relaying that to administrators is an insufficient response.
09 Nov 11
Originally posted by no1marauderI'm sorry, but that is wholly inaccurate. The fact is, no one knows what Joe Pa was told about that incident. I haven't heard anyone say for sure what the witness saw. Also, would you advise someone to go to the police with someone else's testimony? Why didn't what's his butt that witnessed the inappropriate behavior go straight to the police himself? For that matter, if he witnessed a grown man raping a 10 yr old, why didn't he try to stop it? I understand that whatever his name is isn't a big fish, but perhaps we should reserve judgement until all the facts come to light.
SC, it is my understanding that Paterno was given an eyewitness account of Sandusky engaging in anal sex with a ten year old boy in the Penn State locker room.
Surely merely relaying that to administrators is an insufficient response.
09 Nov 11
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Originally posted by dryhumpNot according to the Grand Jury. The indictment is here: http://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/264788/sandusky-grand-jury-presentment.pdf
I'm sorry, but that is wholly inaccurate. The fact is, no one knows what Joe Pa was told about that incident. I haven't heard anyone say for sure what the witness saw. Also, would you advise someone to go to the police with someone else's testimony? Why didn't what's his butt that witnessed the inappropriate behavior go straight to the police himself? For 't a big fish, but perhaps we should reserve judgement until all the facts come to light.
Read the section on Victim 2.
It helps to have SOME information before you claim what someone else says is "wholly inaccurate".
That the graduate assistant didn't do what he should have done doesn't absolve Paterno.
09 Nov 11
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Sorry, I didn't realize you had actually read a court document. The guys on espn all sounded pretty confused. I couldn't get your link to work, but I'll google it. Okay, I read it and I still gotta say that it sounded pretty flimsy. I personally would have encouraged the guy to go see the police about it, but Joe Pa can hardly go on the guys behalf. Instead, he took it to his superiors as required. From there, the responsibility lies with them.
09 Nov 11
5 edits
Originally posted by shortcircuitThis is the crux of it, isn't it? Joe Pa is bigger than the team. Well then, they can all go down in flames for all I care.
Joe Pa is an institution. You never heard of anyone trying to run Bear Bryant out,
but what he did to those kids in Junction bordered on criminal.
As for Whodey, if I were given a first hand graphic eye witness account of a minor being molested, guess what, I don't tell Joe Shmoe down the street about it hoping he follows up on it, rather, I pursue the matter with the proper authorities.
Like I said, it sounds as if Joe Pa has all his legal ducks lined up in a row with nothing to fear because he at least told someone in the University. Then again, the law said OJ was innocent as well.
Your lack of righteous indignation is telling. I guess so long as you are not violating a law you believe someone cannot be unethical. If so, I think you would find a nice home in either Washington or Wall Street. As for myself, I have more respect for those in Washington and Wall Street than I do for Mr. Institution man.
09 Nov 11
Originally posted by no1marauderI cannot get your link to work either, however, the parts of the indictment I could find indicated 8 counts with minors over the age of 15. Not that that is better, just the accuracy of information is all over the place.
Not according to the Grand Jury. The indictment is here: http://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/264788/sandusky-grand-jury-presentment.pdf
Read the section on Victim 2.
It helps to have SOME information before you claim what someone else says is "wholly inaccurate".
That the graduate assistant didn't do what he should have done doesn't absolve Paterno.
I also found this bit of testimony, which I quote:
"At a news conference, Noonan and state Attorney General Linda Kelly were peppered with questions about whether Paterno was given details about what graduate assistant Mike McQueary -- now the team's wide receivers coach -- saw on the night of March 1, 2002.
Paterno has referred to his grand jury testimony in which he testified that he was informed by a graduate assistant that he had witnessed an incident in the shower of the team locker room. Prosecutors have said Paterno passed on the information to Curley.
But Paterno said specific actions alleged to have occurred in the grand jury report were not relayed to him.
"It was obvious that the witness was distraught over what he saw, but he at no time related to me the very specific actions contained in the grand jury report," Paterno said in the statement. "Regardless, it was clear that the witness saw something inappropriate involving Mr. Sandusky. As coach Sandusky was retired from our coaching staff at that time, I referred the matter to university administrators."
09 Nov 11
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Originally posted by shortcircuitSo what if it were your kid who got molested years after the incident in question? Would you feel any differently about Joe Pa?
I cannot get your link to work either, however, the parts of the indictment I could find indicated 8 counts with minors over the age of 15. Not that that is better, just the accuracy of information is all over the place.
I also found this bit of testimony, which I quote:
"At a news conference, Noonan and state Attorney General Linda Kelly were pep from our coaching staff at that time, I referred the matter to university administrators."
Now if I were the parent, I would sue the University, including Joe Pa.
09 Nov 11
Originally posted by whodeyUnlike you, I prefer to know all of the facts before I decide to become judge and jury.
This is the crux of it, isn't it? Joe Pa is bigger than the team. Well then, they can all go down in flames for all I care.
As for Whodey, if I were given a first hand graphic eye witness account of a minor being molested, guess what, I don't tell Joe Shmoe down the street about it hoping he follows up on it, rather, I pursue the matter with the proper a ...[text shortened]... be unethical. If so, I think you would find a nice home in either Washington or Wall Street.
Ohio State can go straight to hell and you along with it.
I am not from Penn State. I have no ties to the university. I have no affinity for it.
But, the PSU program has been one of the cleanest in the country...bar none.
I for one, am going to give Joe Pa the benefit of the doubt until it is proven that he had
something to do with the cover up. If he did as has been reported, it should have been
handled by those who are presently being indicted for the cover up.
09 Nov 11
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Originally posted by shortcircuitExcept for the child molestations? Then again, the molestations did occur in the shower, so maybe your right!!
But, the PSU program has been one of the cleanest in the country...bar none.
Right.
Anyhew, what IS known is that allegations were made against the man in question and it was NOT followed up with the proper authorities. Joe Pa had no way of knowing his guilt or innocents and is why it should have been handed over to the police.
Give me a school that breaks NCAA rules any day of the week over one that sexually abuses minors and then tries to cover it up. There is really no comparison and why you make the distinction is beyond lunacy.
09 Nov 11
Originally posted by whodeyWas your kid molested by them? If not, you have nothing except an opinion.
So what if it were your kid who got molested years after the incident in question? Would you feel any differently about Joe Pa?
I grew up a Catholic. I know three priests who were run out due to this crap.
I had one try to coerce me and two of my friends ...unsuccessfully. There was
a cover up of epic proportions, and the priests were transferred elsewhere.
A lot of this stuff is coming to light worldwide. This stuff is tragic for the kids involved.
However, they didn't fire the Pope yet, and there was a cover up.
So, if you ask if I understand the severity of the allegations, I would answer, yes,
more than you do.
09 Nov 11
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Originally posted by shortcircuitSimply put, the Catholic church is above the law, what can I say. The only question is, is Penn State? We will find out soon.
Was your kid molested by them? If not, you have nothing except an opinion.
I grew up a Catholic. I know three priests who were run out due to this crap.
I had one try to coerce me and two of my friends ...unsuccessfully. There was
a cover up of epic proportions, and the priests were transferred elsewhere.
A lot of this stuff is coming to light wor ou ask if I understand the severity of the allegations, I would answer, yes,
more than you do.
My personal opinion is that Joe Pa will resign Friday. If he is smart, he will not answer any questions.
09 Nov 11
Originally posted by whodeyI am not saying PSU is above the law.
Simply put, the Catholic church is above the law, what can I say. The only question is, is Penn State? We will find out soon.
My personal opinion is that Joe Pa will resign Friday. If he is smart, he will not answer any questions.
If there was a cover up, they deserve to go down in flames.
I am just saying before I crucify anyone of Joe Pa's magnitude, I want to be positive
he was involved in the cover up before I toss him into the fray and call him guilty
by association. I feel he has earned the benefit of the doubt.
If he is found to be guilty as a party to the whole mess, then fine.
Until then, I want to see what the facts are.
My god, they couldn't convict Bill Clinton and they had him dead to rights.
09 Nov 11
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Originally posted by shortcircuitI have no idea why people here can't get a link to work; I have no problem with it.
I cannot get your link to work either, however, the parts of the indictment I could find indicated 8 counts with minors over the age of 15. Not that that is better, just the accuracy of information is all over the place.
I also found this bit of testimony, which I quote:
"At a news conference, Noonan and state Attorney General Linda Kelly were pep from our coaching staff at that time, I referred the matter to university administrators."
The count is clear: the graduate assistant estimated the boy's age was 10 years old; I don't think it's credible to discount that. I find Paterno's version hard to believe; the GA called Paterno and went to his house to tell him of the incident; that he would leave out the "detail" that it was anal rape doesn't sound very likely.
09 Nov 11
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Originally posted by no1marauderAs Tressel would say, he should have sent him an e-mail. 😛
I have no idea why people here can't get a link to work; I have no problem with it.
The count is clear: the graduate assistant estimated the boy's age was 10 years old; I don't think it's credible to discount that. I find Paterno's version hard to believe; the GA called Paterno and went to his house to tell him of the incident; that he would leave out the "detail" that it was anal rape doesn't sound very likely.