22 Oct 10
Originally posted by no1marauderI noticed the empty seats as well, of course. But those were in the super duper extravagant regions of the stadium. Those were $2,500 a game seats last year and $1,250 this year. That's why there were so many empty seats.
It dropped for both reasons; the high priced seats near the field had many noticeably empty seats something that was unheard of the last few years of Yankee Stadium. We both know this was widely reported at the time; do I have to dig up an internet link?
Those were not the seats that the lower and middle class people were sitting in anyway. The Yankees figured that rich corporate types would pay anything they asked and so they charged the Moon. Obviously, they were wrong, though the economy might also be a factor.
The seats that the lower and middle class people sit in are expensive, but not crazy expensive; certainly affordable a couple of times a year for an average family. And those seats were not empty, by and large, any more than in the old stadium.
If a working class person wants to take is kid to a ballgame; they can take a train to the ballpark, buy bleacher seats, buy only a soda or ice cream at the park (they can eat at home or at any of the nearby fast food joints) and the entire trip; soup to nuts, is maybe 50 bucks. Not undoable at all.
22 Oct 10
Originally posted by no1marauderOk Pollyanna. Since when does corporate America care who pays the bill? As long as they collect their fee, they could care less. Just like blood sucking attorneys who fight in earnest until the the money is gone...then the case settles.
😴😴😴
I never said I could or couldn't afford it (it's NOYFB either way). I was discussing the average Yankee fan who surely cannot afford $625 to take his kid to a ballgame. Maybe that's why attendance dropped a half a million when they moved into the Corporate Montrosity. Maybe making it so working class kids can no longer go to a Yankee game will have consequences 10-20 years down the line.
And, I don't give a rat's ass whether or not you can afford to see a ballgame.
22 Oct 10
I really could not care whether the top priced seat go to the Yankees or are sold by scalpers. I get seats at prices that I am comfrotable paying and I see the game. An avereage of 46,000 people did the same. I don't think it is a greed issue at all. The Yankees simply have a limited supply of seats and they are selling most of them.
22 Oct 10
Originally posted by quackquackThey deliberately limited the number of seats so they could charge more (ECO 101). And they installed 51 corporate boxes which they sell at exorbitant rates. But that's not a "greed" thing according to your airheaded analysis (mind you, they were making money hand over fist at Yankee Stadium).
I really could not care whether the top priced seat go to the Yankees or are sold by scalpers. I get seats at prices that I am comfrotable paying and I see the game. An avereage of 46,000 people did the same. I don't think it is a greed issue at all. The Yankees simply have a limited supply of seats and they are selling most of them.
The result is they get more money but fewer fans get to see the game. That seems OK with you and sh76; it's not with me. And 500,000 less fan attending games each year is not good for the team in the long run no matter how you spin it.
22 Oct 10
Originally posted by no1marauderThe idea that no one comes to Yankee stadium is a joke. They sold over 3.7 million tickets. There is a demand for corporate tickets. Although I personally like to just watch the game, pleanty of fans enjoy the restaurants, the shops, the clubs and they are packed the entire game. There is also a demand for corporate box seats. Sure the Yankees make money (a good thing) but they do so by meeting the needs of their fan base. They also created their own network. The replay games on TV, they have pre-game, they have post games, they have Yankeeographies. You can watch Yankee stuff 24 hours a day 365 days a year. Most people think it is over kill but it is hard to argue they neglect their fans.
They deliberately limited the number of seats so they could charge more (ECO 101). And they installed 51 corporate boxes which they sell at exorbitant rates. But that's not a "greed" thing according to your airheaded analysis (mind you, they were making money hand over fist at Yankee Stadium).
The result is they get more money but few ...[text shortened]... ttending games each year is not good for the team in the long run no matter how you spin it.
Only a moron needs to insult others rather than address their points but I guess you can't overcome your personal deficincies.
22 Oct 10
2 edits
Originally posted by quackquackNo one said "no one comes to [the Corporate Monstrosity]", idiot. But 500,000 less fans go there then went to Yankee Stadium.
The idea that no one comes to Yankee stadium is a joke. They sold over 3.7 million tickets. There is a demand for corporate tickets. Although I personally like to just watch the game, pleanty of fans enjoy the restaurants, the shops, the clubs and they are packed the entire game. There is also a demand for corporate box seats. Sure the Yankees make m ...[text shortened]... hers rather than address their points but I guess you can't overcome your personal deficincies.
I get that facts aren't your thing, but it's rather pathetic to consistently ignore them when trying to argue about something.
22 Oct 10
Originally posted by no1marauderWhen you assert that I say it's "ok," I assume you mean that I have no moral problem with it. That is, of course, correct. However, I do understand your point about perhaps sacrificing long term fan base.
They deliberately limited the number of seats so they could charge more (ECO 101). And they installed 51 corporate boxes which they sell at exorbitant rates. But that's not a "greed" thing according to your airheaded analysis (mind you, they were making money hand over fist at Yankee Stadium).
The result is they get more money but few ...[text shortened]... ttending games each year is not good for the team in the long run no matter how you spin it.
But that's a fiscal decision. They've decided that short term financial gain outweighs speculative long term risk. That's all I see it as- a fiscal decision. You seem to be injecting an element of morality or classism into this. I don't see it that way. It's a business, like any other business.
22 Oct 10
Originally posted by sh76Looking at attendance figures game by game at Baseballreference.com (the greatest sports site ever), peak attendance at games this year is 49,500 or so while in 2008 it was a tiny bit over 55,000. That means the Corporate Monstrosity supports a maximum of about 5600 less fans. So roughly you can attribute 90% of the 6,200 or so drop in average attendance to less seats. That still leaves an unexplained 10% reduction.
I noticed the empty seats as well, of course. But those were in the super duper extravagant regions of the stadium. Those were $2,500 a game seats last year and $1,250 this year. That's why there were so many empty seats.
Those were not the seats that the lower and middle class people were sitting in anyway. The Yankees figured that rich corporate types woul ...[text shortened]... by fast food joints) and the entire trip; soup to nuts, is maybe 50 bucks. Not undoable at all.
Anecdotal evidence aside, the stats say that there has been a reduction in attendance above and beyond the planned one by reducing the number of seats.
22 Oct 10
Originally posted by sh76You misunderstand me if you think I'm talking morality; I do not expect business owners to be particularly moral or immoral. I'm talking about wisdom and strategic thinking more than morality.
When you assert that I say it's "ok," I assume you mean that I have no moral problem with it. That is, of course, correct. However, I do understand your point about perhaps sacrificing long term fan base.
But that's a fiscal decision. They've decided that short term financial gain outweighs speculative long term risk. That's all I see it as- a fiscal decisio ...[text shortened]... r classism into this. I don't see it that way. It's a business, like any other business.
The Yankee mystique was based on their history and their history was virtually indistinguishable from Yankee Stadium "The House That Ruth Built" "The Cathedral of Baseball" etc. etc. etc. By demolishing Yankee Stadium, the present owners cut the team off from it moorings and diminished the Yankee mystique. In the long run, this cannot possibly be good for the team.
And neither can appealing to a few of the wealthy and well to do (by corporate boxes and super priced celebrity seats) at the expense of 6000 fans every game. Cutting off such a large number from seeing Opening Day or games against the Red Sox or in the post season is diminishing their personal experience with the Yankees.
When I say "greed" I do not mean the natural inclination for business owners to want to make as much profit as possible; that is expected in a capitalist system. I do mean decisions made for short-term financial gain that ignore the long term negative effects that are virtually certain to occur. This type of "greed" is endemic to the capitalist system and the decision to demolish Yankee Stadium mirrors similar wrongheaded decisions of financial and business leaders of the last 20 years or so which have caused the economic distress the country is laboring under. Admittedly the Yankee ownership decision will not have the same dire consequences, but it is symptomatic of a mindset that is undermining the foundations of our society.
No matter how quixotic others might believe it to be, I choose to make a personal stand against it realizing in the Grand Scheme it doesn't matter much. Anyway, it would suck going to a Yankee game in NYC and not being able to honestly say "The Babe played on that field; Larson threw the perfect game there" etc. etc. etc.
22 Oct 10
2 edits
Originally posted by no1marauderIt simply is not just how many people come to stadium. Otherwise we would play baseball in 100,000 seat football stadiums. Fans want baseball stadiums and the amenities not just lots of seats.
No one said "no one comes to [the Corporate Monstrosity]", idiot. But 500,000 less fans go there then went to Yankee Stadium.
I get that facts aren't your thing, but it's rather pathetic to consistently ignore them when trying to argue about something.
I don't think the Yankee mistique is lost by moving the field across the street. It is still the same uniform, same history, same park type. Same old timers and (with the exception of you) the same fans.
22 Oct 10
Originally posted by no1marauder"Matsui homered off Pedro in Game 6 there" doesn't quite do it for you, eh? 😉
No matter how quixotic others might believe it to be, I choose to make a personal stand against it realizing in the Grand Scheme it doesn't matter much. Anyway, it would suck going to a Yankee game in NYC and not being able to honestly say "The Babe played on that field; Larson threw the perfect game there" etc. etc. etc.
27 Oct 10
Originally posted by quackquackI agree with No1 on this -- if Fenway Park and Wrigley Field can continue to exist, why couldn't the old Yankee Stadium? I can understand tearing down ugly monstrosities like Kingdome or the Metrodome or pretty much any stadium that was built in the 60's and 70's. Or in cases where the place is actually falling apart. But the old Yankee Stadium should have been in the same category as Fenway and Wrigley. Once you tear it down, you can't rebuild it.
It simply is not just how many people come to stadium. Otherwise we would play baseball in 100,000 seat football stadiums. Fans want baseball stadiums and the amenities not just lots of seats.
I don't think the Yankee mistique is lost by moving the field across the street. It is still the same uniform, same history, same park type. Same old timers and (with the exception of you) the same fans.
As for amenities -- why do we need so many #$%^ amenities? Isn't the privilege of being able to watch world-class athletes perform for three hours enough? If the game bores you so much that you need "amenities", then sell your tickets to someone else. I can understand maybe a place like Tampa Bay needs to do everything possible to get people to show up at games. But this is New York.
27 Oct 10
Originally posted by MelanerpesAs a fan you have a right to enjoy the team anyway you see fit. But, to me it crazy to decide to no longer root for a team because the decide to move across the street. I certainly did not personally need the Yankees to build a new stadium -- I bring my own food to Yankee games because it is cheaper and healthier. Nevertheless, I feel the Yankees have a right to build a new stadium with luxury boxes, food courts, restaurants and padded seats -- especially if fans will pay spend fists full of money to use these amenities. I don't look at Jackson, Randolph, Guidry or Munson or the other guys I grew up cheering for as a different team because the ballpark was across the street. There are millions of changes such as the DH, ALCS, ALDS, removing the monuments on the field, changing of the stadium dimensions which seem far larger in the general scheme of things. I find it extraordinarily idiosyncratic to decide that this little change would cause one to forego being a Yankee fan.
I agree with No1 on this -- if Fenway Park and Wrigley Field can continue to exist, why couldn't the old Yankee Stadium? I can understand tearing down ugly monstrosities like Kingdome or the Metrodome or pretty much any stadium that was built in the 60's and 70's. Or in cases where the place is actually falling apart. But the old Yankee Stadium should hav ...[text shortened]... needs to do everything possible to get people to show up at games. But this is New York.
27 Oct 10
Originally posted by quackquackThere are many reasons, many of them rather unusual, for why people choose the specific team(s) they want to root for or against. If No1 doesn't want to root for the Yankees because they ruined a shrine, it makes as much sense as anyone else's reasons for why their root or don't root for certain teams.
As a fan you have a right to enjoy the team anyway you see fit. But, to me it crazy to decide to no longer root for a team because the decide to move across the street. I certainly did not personally need the Yankees to build a new stadium -- I bring my own food to Yankee games because it is cheaper and healthier. Nevertheless, I feel the Yankees hav ...[text shortened]... y idiosyncratic to decide that this little change would cause one to forego being a Yankee fan.