12 Jan 09
Jim Rice is a real borderline call. Rice, Andre Dawson & Dale Murphy are all the same, although I would rank Murphy and Dawson ahead of Rice because of Gold Gloves to go along with MVP's.
Ricky Henderson should be a lock today. Jack Morris deserves to be in as does Bert Blyleven. Andre Dawson should also be in. I also think Murphy belongs in based on ability, but he will probably get screwed based on longevity. If Rice doesn't make it today, it could be a long while before he does because of all the players coming up for election in the next several years and the reluctance the voters and the committee have shown to large induction classes.
13 Jan 09
Originally posted by shortcircuitJim Rice was feared for 12 out of about 15 years of play.
Jim Rice is a real borderline call. Rice, Andre Dawson & Dale Murphy are all the same, although I would rank Murphy and Dawson ahead of Rice because of Gold Gloves to go along with MVP's.
Ricky Henderson should be a lock today. Jack Morris deserves to be in as does Bert Blyleven. Andre Dawson should also be in. I also think Murphy belongs in based on ...[text shortened]... l years and the reluctance the voters and the committee have shown to large induction classes.
He made it, and it was well deserved.
He also could drive a ball to the green on a par 4 consistently. If he's not YOUR HERO, you just don't know him.
P-
13 Jan 09
1 edit
Originally posted by PhlabibitYou know, if you will recall, at the same time that Rice was being "feared" as a hitter in the AL, another guy was feared in the NL, but he is not now, nor should he ever be considered for the HOF. The player is George Foster. There was also Dave Kingman who either hit a bomb a mile long or struckout. He should not be in the Hall either. Rice was mediocre defensively. Richie "call me Dick" Allen was another contemporary of Rice's who was feared as a hitter but does not merit HOF consideration.
Jim Rice was feared for 12 out of about 15 years of play.
He made it, and it was well deserved.
He also could drive a ball to the green on a par 4 consistently. If he's not YOUR HERO, you just don't know him.
P-
Andre Dawson played on a much worse club, on bad knees and was a much better overall player than was Jim Rice. I also contend that Dale Murphy was as well, but longevity will cost him. As far as a grat clutch hitter that may never get in but does deserve consideration in my opinion is Steve Garvey. Ron Santo also deserves consideration, but I believe he was on the cusp and will probably not gain admission.
While Rice was a very good player, I am not sure he was better than some who are still not in. Tony Oiva is another player who was a great hitter and deserves more consideration than he has gotten. I believe Bert Blyleven and Jack Morris should have gotten in and hopefully will in the near future, but with all of the retirees coming up in the next few years, it will be difficult. Lee Smith will gain some following as well, but I think the relievers are a bit diluted right now and it may be a while for Smith.
13 Jan 09
I don't think it is fair to compare Rice to Kingman. Rice was at the top of his career one, in not the, best hitters in the AL. Kingman just hit the ball far. Rice had a career .298 batting average and .352 OBP (Dawson has a .279 and .323 which really hurts him and in a lot of voters mind is greater than the difference in their defense).
14 Jan 09
1 edit
Originally posted by quackquackOh, but you miss a very big difference between Rice's and Dawson'snumbers. Dawson had little help for the bulk of his career (Gary Carter and Tim Raines part of their careers), whereas Rice had a much better group of talent playing with him including Fred Lynn, Carlton Fisk, Yaz, Dwight Evans, Mike Geenwell and let's not forget the DH which put another legitimate bat at the end of the lineup and more RBI's produced because of it. Flip flop the two and I believe Hawk outperforms Rice for their careers.
I don't think it is fair to compare Rice to Kingman. Rice was at the top of his career one, in not the, best hitters in the AL. Kingman just hit the ball far. Rice had a career .298 batting average and .352 OBP (Dawson has a .279 and .323 which really hurts him and in a lot of voters mind is greater than the difference in their defense).
14 Jan 09
Originally posted by PocketKingsI agree whole-heartedly Rose deserves to be in as does Joe Jackson, as does Roger Clemens (when he is eligible).
Free Pete Rose
If you can put Babe Ruth, Ty Cobb, Whitey Ford, Mickey Mantle, Willie McCovey, Willie Mays, Mike Schmidt, Juan Marichal and Reggie Jackson in, then surely these men are justified as well. I can go on because the criminals run deep in the HOF.
14 Jan 09
Originally posted by shortcircuitAgreed. Those guys have to go in someday, but maybe they won't live to see it. As long as I live I won't forget what they gave the game.
I agree whole-heartedly Rose deserves to be in as does Joe Jackson, as does Roger Clemens (when he is eligible).
If you can put Babe Ruth, Ty Cobb, Whitey Ford, Mickey Mantle, Willie McCovey, Willie Mays, Mike Schmidt, Juan Marichal and Reggie Jackson in, then surely these men are justified as well. I can go on because the criminals run deep in the HOF.
14 Jan 09
Originally posted by Phlabibitvery interesting vote.
Jim Rice was feared for 12 out of about 15 years of play.
He made it, and it was well deserved.
He also could drive a ball to the green on a par 4 consistently. If he's not YOUR HERO, you just don't know him.
P-
Dawson will make it next year.
I think these are less of a vote for Rice and Dawson and more of a vote against McGwire.
14 Jan 09
Originally posted by shortcircuitDawson also played with Al Oliver -- another good hitter who batted in teh aprt of th eline up he did. The Expos had a nice top of the line up and speed that Boston did not have. I probably would not have voted for either, but when they are playing (obviously before you get perspective) I felt that in the late 70s Rice was the best hitter in the league and I never felt that way about Dawson.
Oh, but you miss a very big difference between Rice's and Dawson'snumbers. Dawson had little help for the bulk of his career (Gary Carter and Tim Raines part of their careers), whereas Rice had a much better group of talent playing with him including Fred Lynn, Carlton Fisk, Yaz, Dwight Evans, Mike Geenwell and let's not forget the DH which put another ...[text shortened]... uced because of it. Flip flop the two and I believe Hawk outperforms Rice for their careers.
15 Jan 09
Originally posted by quackquackAl Oliver was in the twilight of his career when he played in Montreal, and he never displayed much power. He was a good gap hitter and a good average hitter though. Lynn, Evan and Greenwell all struck more fear in opposing pitchers than Oliver did. Fisk and Carter were about equal. Yaz offset Raines offense. Plus, in the NL, the pitcher hit 9th while Dawson hit 3rd. Lots of missed RBI possibilities.
Dawson also played with Al Oliver -- another good hitter who batted in teh aprt of th eline up he did. The Expos had a nice top of the line up and speed that Boston did not have. I probably would not have voted for either, but when they are playing (obviously before you get perspective) I felt that in the late 70s Rice was the best hitter in the league and I never felt that way about Dawson.
In any event, you either liked them or you didn't. As I said before, the best of all three was Dale Murphy and he just left the game too early.