Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
I would be interested in reading such a proof.
ok Doc, here it is, i apologize for the lengthy nature of the thing, but if exercise patience and read the text, see what you think
first of all we establish the condition of the dead
Ecclesiastes 9:5 states
For the living are conscious that they will die;
but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all, neither do they anymore have wages, because the remembrance of them has been forgotten.
so from this reference we can establish that the dead are in a state of unconsciousness, is it not so? therefore if they are unconscious, they cannot feel any pain, therefore if they do not feel pain, they cannot be tortured.
the words that have been translated hell in scripture come from the Hebrew words Gehenna the valley of Hinnom and Sheol, and the Greek word Hades, the common grave of mankind.
the valley of Hinnom, or Gehenna is interesting for it was once used for offering up people in ritual sacrifice, note this passage.
Twenty years old was Ahaz when he began to reign, and for sixteen years he reigned in Jerusalem, and he did not do what was right in Jehovah’s eyes like David his forefather. But he walked in the ways of the kings of Israel, and even molten statues he made of the Baals. 3And he himself made sacrificial smoke in the valley of the son of Hinnom and proceeded to burn up his sons in the fire, according to the detestable things of the nations that Jehovah had driven out from before the sons of Israel. And he regularly sacrificed and made sacrificial smoke on the high places and upon the hills and under every sort of luxuriant tree. 2 Chronicles 28:1-4
this practice was stamped out by Josiah in his religious reforms and the place became a desolate waste
And he made unfit for worship Topheth, which is in the valley of the sons of Hinnom, that no one might make his son or his daughter pass through the fire to Molech. 2 Kings 23:10
the important thing to note is how God felt about this, thus we read, at Jeremiah 7:21, 'And they have built the high places of Topheth, which is in the valley of the son of Hinnom, in order to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire,
a thing that I had not commanded and that had not come up into my heart.’, so this roasting people in a fire had never entered into Gods figurative heart, never!
in the time of Christ this place Gehenna became a garbage dump for animal carcasses and stuff, like people who were denied a proper burial, convicted criminals etc, fires were kept burning there by adding brimstone (sulfur). thus it became a symbol of destruction, not torment!
now these other words translated hell, Sheol and Hades
Websters Dictionary says that the English word “hell” is equal to the Hebrew word Sheol and the Greek word Hades. The English translators of the Authorized Version, or King James Version, translated Sheol 31 times as “hell,” 31 times as “grave,” and 3 times as “pit.” The Catholic Douay Version translated Sheol 64 times as “hell.” In the Christian Greek Scriptures (commonly called the “New Testament&rdquo😉, the King James Version translated Hades as “hell” each of the 10 times it occurs.—Matthew 11:23; 16:18; Luke 10:15; 16:23; Acts 2:27, 31; Revelation 1:18; 6:8; 20:13, 14.
The question is: What kind of place is Sheol, or Hades? The fact that the King James Version translates the one Hebrew word Sheol three different ways shows that hell, grave and pit mean one and the same thing. And if hell means the common grave of mankind, it could not at the same time mean a place of fiery torture. Well, then, do Sheol and Hades mean the grave, or do they mean a place of torture?
Before answering this question, let us make clear that the Hebrew word Sheol and the Greek word Hades mean the same thing. This is shown by looking at Psalm 16:10 in the Hebrew Scriptures and Acts 2:31 in the Greek Scriptures,
For you will not leave my soul in Sheol.
You will not allow your loyal one to see the pit. - psalm 61:10
he saw beforehand and spoke concerning the resurrection of the Christ, that neither was he forsaken in Hades nor did his flesh see corruption. - Acts 2:31
Notice that in quoting from Psalm 16:10 where Sheol occurs, Acts 2:31 uses Hades. Notice, too, that Jesus Christ was in Hades, or hell. Are we to believe that God tormented Christ in a hell of fire? Not a chance! Jesus was simply in his grave.
thus we must conclude that the words translated as hell do not mean a literal place of torment, but simply the common grave of mankind, where they are used, as in the case of Gehenna, it figuratively means destruction from before the face of God, not torment, thus when we read in the book of revelation, about the lake of fire , it simply means, the second death, or death with no hope of a Resurrection, in other words, destruction.
No good Doctor, you can rest assured that no one is, or going to be tormented in a place of torture, not now, not ever.
Why is it so aggravating ?
06 Feb '09 17:59
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