14 Mar '12 20:25>
Does apophasis have any relevance today?
Originally posted by Bosse de NageIn the Christian tradition, in the West, its relevancy is growing I think. A. W. Tozer once said that the greatest failing of the modern American church is its inaccurate "low" conception of God, which, he says, lies at the root of the church's ills. I know the philosopher Dallas Willard has preached revival of the apophatic tradition as a means of revitalizing individual and collective contact with what Tozer would call a "right" conception of God, i.e., a God not fashioned in our own image and kept inside a comfortable box that we imagine we can control, but God as He truly is - beyond all understanding. More and more people are dissatisfied with exoteric Christianity and are seeking a deeper connection to the divine. The emerging church movement is a good example of this. Personally, I see some combination of the apophatic tradition, Pentecostalism and liberation theology as the future of Christianity.
Does apophasis have any relevance today?
Originally posted by epiphinehasThat sounds positive. But Pentecostalism?
In the Christian tradition, in the West, its relevancy is growing I think. A. W. Tozer once said that the greatest failing of the modern American church is its inaccurate "low" conception of God, which, he says, lies at the root of the church's ills. I know the philosopher Dallas Willard has preached revival of the apophatic tradition as a means of rev ...[text shortened]... apophatic tradition, Pentecostalism and liberation theology as the future of Christianity.
Originally posted by epiphinehasThe foundation of any relationship is mutual love and respect.
..greatest failing of the modern American church is its inaccurate "low" conception of God, ...
Originally posted by Bosse de NagePentecostalism is the fastest growing movement in Christendom, like it or not. Mostly due to its focus on the Spirit. It is a shift away from the staid, abstract, doctrinal faith of the past, toward a more interactive experience. The spirit of Pentecostalism is probably summed up best by John Wimber, who, after hearing about Christ and the apostles in a sermon, asked, "So, when do we get to do the stuff? When do we get to do the stuff that Jesus did?" Similar to the apophatic tradition, the charismatic movement offers a more imminent relationship with the divine. Harvey Cox has even suggested that it is a misunderstanding to equate Pentecostalism with the rise of fundamentalism, and that the focus on the Spirit involved actually facilitates Christian interaction with other faiths.
That sounds positive. But Pentecostalism?
Originally posted by Rajk999I don't know of anyone who doesn't question the authenticity of a known sinner's faith. Undoubtedly, reprobates profligate in congregations everywhere. You could preach hell-fire, damnation and works seven days a week and they still won't change or go away. You paint this picture of a church replete with hypocrites, but my own personal experience doesn't agree. Christians generally understand that holiness is the accepted standard and most strive for it in opposition to the lusts of the flesh. Nevertheless, there will always be examples of the flagrant abuse of grace. Personally, I try not to concern myself with the lives of others and tend to keep focus on my own weaknesses and shortcomings. Otherwise, it's easy to fall into spiritual pride.
The foundation of any relationship is mutual love and respect.
A man comes home drunk with lipstick all over his clothes and his wife says .."honey, forget it .. just say Im sorry 50 times and all will be well". Not long after the same thing, the man gambles away all his salary and the wife says " .. honey no problem just repeat your marriage vows 20 tim ...[text shortened]... can a man have the right conception of God when the preachers are preaching such garbage?
Originally posted by epiphinehasOk. The risk of this intensified spirituality is fixating on subjective emotion. The apophatic way steers clear of the snake-juggling, boggle-eyed freak-out.
Pentecostalism is the fastest growing movement in Christendom, like it or not. Mostly due to its focus on the Spirit. It is a shift away from the staid, abstract, doctrinal faith of the past, toward a more interactive experience. The spirit of Pentecostalism is probably summed up best by John Wimber, who, after hearing about Christ and the apostles in ...[text shortened]... the focus on the Spirit involved actually facilitates Christian interaction with other faiths.
Originally posted by epiphinehasFirst, nothing in my post should make you think that Im focusing on the lives of others. It should be obvious that my post was about the wrong teachings of modern Christianity. And thats a serious matter.
I don't know of anyone who doesn't question the authenticity of a known sinner's faith. Undoubtedly, reprobates profligate in congregations everywhere. You could preach hell-fire, damnation and works seven days a week and they still won't change or go away. You paint this picture of a church replete with hypocrites, but my own personal experien ...[text shortened]... on my own weaknesses and shortcomings. Otherwise, it's easy to fall into spiritual pride.
Originally posted by Bosse de NageFrom what I know of Pentecostals, the 'stuff' that Jesus did that they wanted to do would be miracles. And the reason would be to impress their friends or to make money. Pentecostals are a very money conscious and worldly group. I bet they certainly would not want to do the humble stuff that Jesus did like hang out with the poor, and sick and the deprived.
Ok. The risk of this intensified spirituality is fixating on subjective emotion. The apophatic way steers clear of the snake-juggling, boggle-eyed freak-out.
And: 'when do we get to the stuff that Jesus did' - that approach is perilously idolatrous. Why? Because it involves having a concrete preconceived idea of who and what Jesus was and did, thu ...[text shortened]... me before 'trying to do what Jesus did'. I mean - go the whole hog, get yourself crucified.
Originally posted by moon1969
Isn't Islam by far the fastest growing religion in the world?
Isn't Islam by far the fastest growing religion in the world?
Originally posted by Bosse de NageThe risk of this intensified spirituality is fixating on subjective emotion.
Ok. The risk of this intensified spirituality is fixating on subjective emotion. The apophatic way steers clear of the snake-juggling, boggle-eyed freak-out.
And: 'when do we get to the stuff that Jesus did' - that approach is perilously idolatrous. Why? Because it involves having a concrete preconceived idea of who and what Jesus was and did, thu ...[text shortened]... me before 'trying to do what Jesus did'. I mean - go the whole hog, get yourself crucified.