Originally posted by chappy1 Give me a Book and a Verse and then I'll try and tell you because as of right now I don't know to what you are referring.
Matt 27:53-53
52 "The tombs broke open and the bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life."
53 "They came out of the tombs, and after Jesus' resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many people."
Originally posted by amannion I'm guessing there's a few Al-qaeda big wigs that would prove you wrong on not being able to willingly die a horrible death.
The truth is history if littered with prophets who managed to convince seemingly rational and right thinking followers that they should do things that to us, seem strange or heroic or stupid or all of these.
The only difference be ...[text shortened]... sus's became the established story.
Run history again and watch someone else get in there.
Yes some Alqaeda big wigs would definitely die a horrible death for their faiths but they are not in the unique position to know without a doubt that their faith was in fact true because they were not in the cave with Muhammed when he supposedly received his visions. See you're not getting it. The disciples were in this unique position to know for a fact and no one else was.
If you're comparing Jesus the Savior of the world who preached nothing but love, kindness, and repentence to receive eternal life to Osama Bin Laden or David Koresh or John Smith then you truly don't have a grasp of what Jesus did. Osama Bin Laden is not teaching love your neighbor. He's teaching to kill anyone who doesn't agree with Islam. He's teaching hate. Jesus said to love those who persecute you to pray for those who would critisize or hate you- to turn the other cheek. These are not the messsages of Laden or any of the others you mentioned. Plus there are no miracles attributed to Laden or Koresh or Smith.
If you run history again it would be the same story because this was God's plan from the beginning. To send his son to save the world.
Originally posted by amannion Because hamburgers are not blue.
Now, if that answer to your question makes no sense, then you'll get some idea of the nature of your question.
It's meaningless.
Christianity is what it is.
Other religions are what they are.
Not, if in fact, Jesus actually rose from the dead!
Originally posted by Pawnokeyhole When did Jesus claim to be God?
Didn't he keep saying he was the "Son of MAN"?
He did say that the Father and He were one--unless it's a later interpolation by mystically-minded editors--but perhaps he only meant that metaphorically.
He also agreed that he was the Son of the Living God. Still, that's not quite an assertion of identity, is it?
John 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
52 "The tombs broke open and the bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life."
53 "They came out of the tombs, and after Jesus' resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many people."
You should have known that one, yo.
Why should I have known that off of the top of my head? I don't have the entire Bible memorized.
But now that I can go back and read it this is the interpretation;
The ancient prophets and priests who perished in Jerusalem were the ones who were raised. They were raised by the Holy Spirit as a witness to the risen Christ and all of his majesty as the Son of God.
Originally posted by chappy1 Yes some Alqaeda big wigs would definitely die a horrible death for their faiths but they are not in the unique position to know without a doubt that their faith was in fact true because they were not in the cave with Muhammed when he supposedly received his visions. See you're not getting it. The disciples were in this unique position to know for a fact a ...[text shortened]... story because this was God's plan from the beginning. To send his son to save the world.
No, I'm not suggesting Jesus's philosophy was anything like those others. Of course it wasn't. He was a good guy apparently.
What I am saying is that the devotion of his followers is completely the same as the devotion of any followers of charismatic leader. Of course they'll say what they say about him - even when he's dead, even when what they say will mean their deaths.
They're entranced by the idea of him.
Originally posted by chappy1 Why should I have known that off of the top of my head? I don't have the entire Bible memorized.
But now that I can go back and read it this is the interpretation;
The ancient prophets and priests who perished in Jerusalem were the ones who were raised. They were raised by the Holy Spirit as a witness to the risen Christ and all of his majesty as the Son of God.
I hope this answers your question. 🙂
Perfectly.
Your analysis of the bible is completely open to an interpretation that suits what you already believe.
Thanks for so clearly pointing that out.
Originally posted by amannion Perfectly.
Your analysis of the bible is completely open to an interpretation that suits what you already believe.
Thanks for so clearly pointing that out.
Ok then, since you know best, please tell me your interpretation of the same verse. I anxiously await your wise and vastly superior answer.
Originally posted by amannion No, I'm not suggesting Jesus's philosophy was anything like those others. Of course it wasn't. He was a good guy apparently.
What I am saying is that the devotion of his followers is completely the same as the devotion of any followers of charismatic leader. Of course they'll say what they say about him - even when he's dead, even when what they say will mean their deaths.
They're entranced by the idea of him.
I'll say this one last time. No one will die for a lie. Even if they're entranced by him. Yes the devotion by Christians to Jesus Christ is different. I can't say it any clearer. Sorry.
Originally posted by chappy1 Ok then, since you know best, please tell me your interpretation of the same verse. I anxiously await your wise and vastly superior answer.
I don't pretend to interpret it.
I'm not that swept up in the hysteria of biblical texts that I hang my every thought and deed on what someone wrote 2000 years ago or more.
And despite my sarcasm, I don't pretend to know best. But I also don't accept that you know better.
That's the difference between us - I show some humility in my views.
Originally posted by chappy1 I'll say this one last time. No one will die for a lie. Even if they're entranced by him. Yes the devotion by Christians to Jesus Christ is different. I can't say it any clearer. Sorry.
I'll say this again - and probably not for the last time given your intransigence ...
Originally posted by amannion I don't pretend to interpret it.
I'm not that swept up in the hysteria of biblical texts that I hang my every thought and deed on what someone wrote 2000 years ago or more.
And despite my sarcasm, I don't pretend to know best. But I also don't accept that you know better.
That's the difference between us - I show some humility in my views.
I'm not claiming I know anything. I'm just reading God's word and extrapolating the knowledge out of it. It's the Holy Spirit that helps us understand and relates it to us. It's in black and white right there.
Originally posted by chappy1 Who has died knowing for a fact that what they've died for is a lie?
How would I know the answer to that?
Gumby? The tooth fairy?
I'm not claiming that I know anyone has died for a lie. Nor in fact, am I claiming that any of the disciples died for a lie - knowingly.
I'm sure they believed the drivel you're spouting. I'm sure you believe it too.
But believing it doesn't make it true.
I can believe something is true even if it isn't - and I can die with and for that belief.
29 Nov '07 08:521 edit
The resurrection
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