Spirituality or Religion?

Originally posted by ReddersP
Well gentlemen, it has been some days since I originally posted my question of spirituality vs Religion and it would appear that collectively we managed to have a religious debate.

Whilst I don't doubt that Jesus himself has had some truely wonderfully uplifting quotes attributed to him, I begin to wonder Jaywill, do you suppose we shall find the same fi ...[text shortened]...

Are we saying that in order to be spiritual unless we recognise GOD we cannot be spiritual?

The problem is not a simple one. And I am not sure I have all the answers.

Here are two things which make the issue not simple:

1) Just because one recognizes God does not necessarily mean that one is spiritual.

2.) There are buried with in the fallen soul of man many dormant powers which can achieve remarkable things. The human soul has since the fall of Adam, had latent powers which are buried deep within it.

There are a number of disciplines in the East and in the West which seek to tap into this latent soulical power. They have various methods of doing this. Science of the Soul, Yoga, some forms of Hypnotism, various Meditation techniques have at time been able to release this great soulical power in man's fallen soul.

The problem is that the people who perfect these skills mistakenly, IMO, believe that these are "spritual" powers or "spiritual" experiences.

In Watchman Nee's book "The Latent Power of the Soul" he outlines some of the miraculous and extraordinary things man can achieve by unleashing this buried power of the soul. But he also cautions that such excercises are not spiritual in the true sense. They are parapsychological or science of the mind - science of the soul achievements.

I think once we get these deceptive experiences off of the board then we STILL have the problem of whether there are true expiences of the human spirit which are apart from the Holy Spirit.

So my problem is that first we have to illiminate much before we can even get down to the issue of SOUL experience verses HUMAN SPIRIT experiences.

That is all I feel to write right now.

Concerning truth ---. There are elements of truth is most of the worlds great faiths. They would not attract people unless there were some elements about them which are truly true.

Therefore, I could find some aspects of truth in most of the great world religions. But ultimately the TRUTH is not an issue or a matter but a living Person, the Triune God.

You know that that is my faith and the perspective from which I see things.

Originally posted by ReddersP
Well gentlemen, it has been some days since I originally posted my question of spirituality vs Religion and it would appear that collectively we managed to have a religious debate.

Whilst I don't doubt that Jesus himself has had some truely wonderfully uplifting quotes attributed to him, I begin to wonder Jaywill, do you suppose we shall find the same fi ...[text shortened]...

Are we saying that in order to be spiritual unless we recognise GOD we cannot be spiritual?

I think there's a pretty simple answer. Spirituality may or may not have anything to do with "God". For me, I have had some of my most spiritual moments listening to John Coltrane's music. He made an album called 'Love Supereme" and his music was very much connected to his personal sense of spirituality. He was not religious really in any other sense I understand. Jerry Garcia's playing at certain times brought me to the same place.

You might be dismissing the seriousness of my claim. I am an atheist. However, I'd be willing to bet the spirituality is as real to me as it is to you. It's all relative.

Originally posted by The Dude 84
I think there's a pretty simple answer. Spirituality may or may not have anything to do with "God". For me, I have had some of my most spiritual moments listening to John Coltrane's music. He made an album called 'Love Supereme" and his music was very much connected to his personal sense of spirituality. He was not religious really in any other sense ...[text shortened]... be willing to bet the spirituality is as real to me as it is to you. It's all relative.

In the case of artistic works, they often express a longing which is a very deep human longing.

One may be touched deeply by it. It may cause a person to sense the deep longing for the spiritual.

Originally posted by jaywill
In the case of artistic works, they often express a longing which is a very deep human longing.

One may be touched deeply by it. It may cause a person to sense the deep longing for the spiritual.

The bible is an artistic work. It expresses a deep longing for why we are here and how we should behave on this earth. That's what Coltrane plays for too. Humanity. The difference is that I can see Coltrane on DVD and listen to him, and that's a lot more direct than how the bible is read today. There is no doubt about his authorship and I can watch and listen to him!

My point wasn't what's better, or further removed from the original source. My point was that the feeling you get from the bible I get from Coltrane, but it's the same feeling. It's not a sense of spirituality, it's spirituality. It's all relative. The feeling you get from listening to Coltrane is as spiritual/unspiritual as my feeling when I read the bible. I imagine you'll disagree though, and maybe get offended...