04 Feb '11 15:22>
Originally posted by AgergJesus only wore Jesus boots.
Didn't Jesus wear sandals?...do they have soles? 😕
However, snowflakes have knowledge, memory and other innate human conditions. So I guess snowflakes have souls too! 😉
Originally posted by mikelomForgive my cynicism but I'm not too optimistic that if I ask vishvahetu how snowflakes access this memory and where it is stored I'll get a satisfactory answer! ;]
Jesus only wore Jesus boots.
However, snowflakes have knowledge, memory and other innate human conditions. So I guess snowflakes have souls too! 😉
Originally posted by Agergthere may be decreased perception and reason, but that in no way infers that the words and actions are not yours alone. Are there marrionette strings attached to your body and brain that may be accessed by outside forces? No, it is simply your brain functioning on a different level than your "rational" self. People who are schizoid, paranoid, bi-polar etc...often act irrationally, it is not some outside pressure working in, but rather the effects of the brain working improperly...like when someone is drunk.
I disagree, for by tanking myself up on alcohol, though it is true certain aspects of my character are given greater reign, it is also true that this character is operating with greatly decreased perception and reasoning along with other 'disabilities' and so the *me* when I'm drunk isn't quite a suppressed version of *me* when I'm sober.
Originally posted by AgergI see what you are saying, but I would argue that the best evidence is that the whole is greater than the sum of its parts.
I don't like asking the question in this way because it gives rise to vague answers. If I'm going to accept there is some part of me that lives on after I die I have to be stopped in my tracks when I try to argue my drives and actions can be reduced down into elementary physical and evolutionary based processes.
Originally posted by DowardI don't really think this hurts my argument since given we have established here that *me* is affected by physical events, wiring, and impairments, the question remains as to what parts of *me* are independent of any physical or evolutionary processes. I.e. there doesn't seem to be a concrete *me* who transcends the physical, more *me* seems to be a response to natural events and wholly dependent upon those.
there may be decreased perception and reason, but that in no way infers that the words and actions are not yours alone. Are there marrionette strings attached to your body and brain that may be accessed by outside forces? No, it is simply your brain functioning on a different level than your "rational" self. People who are schizoid, paranoid, bi-polar etc...o the mix, rather it malfunctions as it attempts to function normally on a decreased capacity.
Originally posted by josephwCan you describe further how it gives you identity?
The part you are referring to. The part of "you" that exists after your body ceases to function. The "soul" is the seat of the will. The "soul" is that part of you that gives you identity.
Originally posted by DowardTo that I would say the whole is greater than the sum of it's parts because it is more a function of it's parts as opposed to a summation. ;]
I see what you are saying, but I would argue that the best evidence is that the whole is greater than the sum of its parts.
Originally posted by AgergI know you're not purposely trying to be impertinent, but you are standing up as an unspiritual man demanding an answer to a spiritual question. Deft as you are at analyzing all manner of materially-based considerations, you are here attempting to divide between the soul and the spirit--- which is something only the Word of God is able to do.
I'm not the first to have asked the question which will follow after the preamble... [hidden](and asked it before a while back but didn\'t phrase my question from the outset to get the answer I\'m looking for)[/hidden]
I think of *me*, i.e. the being that perceives the world around him, likes/dislikes things, thinks, plans, etc... as a manifestation of (or ...[text shortened]... *me* cannot be accounted for by natural interactions and processes?...why???[/b]
Originally posted by Agergeach part functioning on its own does not give rise to sentience, but rather the combination of parts work together to create something more than the base attributes.
To that I would say the whole is greater than the sum of it's parts because it is more a function of it's parts as opposed to a summation. ;]
Originally posted by FreakyKBHThe man of flesh cannot fathom or even begin to consider spiritual matters, and attempts to do so will result in nothing more than (to him) gibberish.
I know you're not purposely trying to be impertinent, but you are standing up as an unspiritual man demanding an answer to a spiritual question. Deft as you are at analyzing all manner of materially-based considerations, you are here attempting to divide between the soul and the spirit--- which is something only the Word of God is able to do.
The man o ...[text shortened]... will? That's strike two.
Imagine doing something you've never done before. Strike three.
Originally posted by twhiteheadalready pointed this part out. Nothing eminates from the person that is not already contained within the person; alcohol does not create silly words, it mearly lowers the functionality of the mechanism
Can you describe further how it gives you identity?
Agerg has already pointed out that mind altering substances or brain injuries can dramatically change the way we think, our memories and even our character. So clearly this 'identity' you talk of is not every day thoughts, memories, character etc.
Or is the soul itself affected by alcohol?
Originally posted by Dowardalcohol does not create silly words
already pointed this part out. Nothing eminates from the person that is not already contained within the person; alcohol does not create silly words, it mearly lowers the functionality of the mechanism
Originally posted by DowardI did not claim that alcohol creates silly words. However the combination of alcohol and the brain does. You claim that the silly words derive solely from the brain yet simultaneously admit that alcohol is involved in the effect. Which is it?
already pointed this part out. Nothing eminates from the person that is not already contained within the person; alcohol does not create silly words, it mearly lowers the functionality of the mechanism
Originally posted by twhiteheadI did not claim that alcohol creates silly words. However the combination of alcohol and the brain does.
I did not claim that alcohol creates silly words. However the combination of alcohol and the brain does. You claim that the silly words derive solely from the brain yet simultaneously admit that alcohol is involved in the effect. Which is it?
[b]Nothing eminates from the person that is not already contained within the person;
You can potentially g ...[text shortened]... am come solely from your brain, or did the person and pain pathway have something to do with it?[/b]
Originally posted by twhiteheadA clearer example might be when somebody hurts you and you scream out in pain. Did the scream come solely from your brain, or did the person and pain pathway have something to do with it?
I did not claim that alcohol creates silly words. However the combination of alcohol and the brain does. You claim that the silly words derive solely from the brain yet simultaneously admit that alcohol is involved in the effect. Which is it?
[b]Nothing eminates from the person that is not already contained within the person;
You can potentially g ...[text shortened]... am come solely from your brain, or did the person and pain pathway have something to do with it?[/b]