Shame on the Christians

Originally posted by Rajk999
Actually your job if you are indeed a follower of Christ is to repeat truthfully and faithfully what Christ preached. Whether or not you win a debate is irrelevant.

Christians are not united is becuase they mostly follow the teachings and interpretation of the organisation to which they are loyal.

Actually your job if you are indeed a follower of Christ is to repeat truthfully and faithfully what Christ preached. Whether or not you win a debate is irrelevant.

That's your opinion. The scripture says otherwise. 2 Corinthians 5:11 - Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men;

Christians are not united is because they mostly follow the teachings and interpretation of the organisation to which they are loyal.

You got that right!

Originally posted by galveston75
Actually this was fortold to happen by Jesus at Mark 7:6,7 & Rom 10:2,3.
Also as the Bible says at 2Cor. 11:14,15 that it is Satan that is behind the confusion.
The sad thing about this simple ploy of Satan in using confusion among the Christian religions is that it tends to make ones that are looking for the truth, to give up and assume that it's hopeless.

I know that.

Originally posted by twhitehead
There really isn't a whole lot to be consistent about. Either you believe in a god or you don't. I see little or no inconsistency which ever of those you believe. It is the additional beliefs that people may be inconsistent about.

[b]Therefore, it seems logical that no debate in this forum can ever be anything other than an exercise in futility.
W ...[text shortened]... think it supports their claims and b) they don't like to admit they don't know the answer.[/b]

Why does that follow?

It follows that if a group of individuals claim there is a God but don't or can't agree on who or what God is in His (God's) attributes and character, then how can the Christians expect to persuade anyone about anything?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
are you saying that persons without religion, do not have a conscience?

No.

I'm saying what good is one's conscience if it isn't directed/controlled/guided by God?

It's a blanket statement.

Originally posted by divegeester
In regards to this forum, atheists believe one thing "there is no god".

Christians believe lots of things relating to their belief in god and therefore there is more to disagree about.

Your point is moot.


Actually, you made my point. Shame on the Christians for giving atheists reason not to believe.

Why should the non believer believe the Christians when the Christians can't agree on what they believe?

Originally posted by josephw
No.

I'm saying what good is one's conscience if it isn't directed/controlled/guided by God?

It's a blanket statement.

Are you implying that God guides only the conscience of Christians or Jews? I know many Christians believe this.

Hi josephw,

Becoming a Christian doesn’t mean that I suddenly know everything. In fact I know very little. I am sure you will shout out and agree with me that Jesus is the Way the Truth and Live. That is awesome and that I know.

Becoming a Christian did in fact let me experience the love and peace that God intended all to be part off (even though I do not deserve it). Because that is so special, I want everybody else to be part of it, but I cannot persuade, for it is God who persuade. I only pray to be an instrument of His good news.

Originally posted by josephw
[b]Why does that follow?

It follows that if a group of individuals claim there is a God but don't or can't agree on who or what God is in His (God's) attributes and character, then how can the Christians expect to persuade anyone about anything?[/b]

It simply does not make sense. Just because I cant agree with someone else about the specific attributes of a given dinosaur should not instantly render all my and his claims worthless. Similarly, just because you cant agree on the Attributes of God with a fellow Christian or even a fellow theist such as a Muslim it shouldn't make all your arguments without value.
If anything, if your arguments rely solely on weight of numbers then there is a problem with your arguments.
I for one am not easily convinced based solely on the number of people who believe something.
It is quite normal in science for disputes to exist and top scientists to disagree on things like the fundamental nature of matter, but that does not mean we stop listening to them when they talk.

And last but not least, if you think that the whole purpose of this forum is to pursuade athiests to become theist, then maybe you are right - you are wasting your time - but that has more to do with your lack of evidence, lack of a convincing argument and serious self contradictions within what you claim and not so much to do with whether your claims agree with anyone else's.

Originally posted by josephw
In this forum, from what I've been reading in it, atheists are more coherent than the so-called Christians, (myself excluded of course); (not the topic of this thread).

The atheists are at least consistent in their beliefs, whereas the "Christians" are disunited and disjointed.

It's no wonder the atheist is in unbelief. I can't believe what I hear the ...[text shortened]... forum can ever be anything other than an exercise in futility.

Shame on the Christians.

The fact that Christains sometimes are polarized against one another is disconcerting, but having a variety of denominations with differing views on specific points isn't a problem for me. In fact, I'm one of the "smorgasbord" Christians: I'm a member of a Lutheran (Mo. synod) church, but some of their beliefs conflict with mine. I believe the elements of communion are a symbol of Christ's blood and body (very Methodist); I believe in the "once-saved-always-saved" doctrine of salvation (Southern Baptist leaning); and I believe we DO take an active role in our salvation--very minor, since I do believe Christ chooses us rather than vice versa (Lutheran), BUT I consider "belief" to be an active action, not a passive one (very NON-Lutheran); and so on it goes.
Since I doubt I am unique, probably others have similar beliefs that they adhere to which may differ from the company line of the denomination with which they are affiliated. This doesn't put us at war with one another---like the song says, we just disagree.

Originally posted by Riaans
Hi josephw,

Becoming a Christian doesn’t mean that I suddenly know everything. In fact I know very little. I am sure you will shout out and agree with me that Jesus is the Way the Truth and Live. That is awesome and that I know.

Becoming a Christian did in fact let me experience the love and peace that God intended all to be part off (even though I do ...[text shortened]... I cannot persuade, for it is God who persuade. I only pray to be an instrument of His good news.

It is your Christian duty to persuade.

Ephesians 3:9 - And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

Originally posted by PinkFloyd
The fact that Christains sometimes are polarized against one another is disconcerting, but having a variety of denominations with differing views on specific points isn't a problem for me. In fact, I'm one of the "smorgasbord" Christians: I'm a member of a Lutheran (Mo. synod) church, but some of their beliefs conflict with mine. I believe the elements ...[text shortened]... This doesn't put us at war with one another---like the song says, we just disagree.

My comments are made within the context of this forum. And I'm talking about gross doctrinal error. Not minor differences of opinion.

Originally posted by twhitehead
It simply does not make sense. Just because I cant agree with someone else about the specific attributes of a given dinosaur should not instantly render all my and his claims worthless. Similarly, just because you cant agree on the Attributes of God with a fellow Christian or even a fellow theist such as a Muslim it shouldn't make all your arguments witho ...[text shortened]... within what you claim and not so much to do with whether your claims agree with anyone else's.

Sir. There are certain core doctrines agreed upon by mainstream Christianity throughout the ages. But in this forum there are those who pass themselves off as "Christian" based on their own word and not on the criteria set forth by God's Word.

Let's say that you and I are standing in front of an apple tree. The majority of people seeing the tree agree that it is an apple tree. If I were to say I can get oranges from that apple tree, what would you say? You'd say, "but it's an apple tree. You can't get oranges from an apple tree".
And I say, "but it's not an apple tree, it's an orange tree".

The same thing is true about God's Word. People say it says this, but it really says that. They try to get oranges from an apple tree when it is plainly an apple tree.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Are you implying that God guides only the conscience of Christians or Jews? I know many Christians believe this.

Does God guide the conscience of those that don't believe He exists?

Originally posted by josephw
Sir. There are certain core doctrines agreed upon by mainstream Christianity throughout the ages. But in this forum there are those who pass themselves off as "Christian" based on their own word and not on the criteria set forth by God's Word.

Let's say that you and I are standing in front of an apple tree. The majority of people seeing the tree agree tha ...[text shortened]... that. They try to get oranges from an apple tree when it is plainly an apple tree.

I think some believers need the bible to seem like simple truth to them, because they desire assurance that they know the truth. Trouble is, there's all those other people out there who have studied the bible with equal earnestness and managed to reach a different conclusion.

There is no consensus that it's an apple tree.

Originally posted by SwissGambit
I think some believers need the bible to seem like simple truth to them, because they desire assurance that they know the truth. Trouble is, there's all those other people out there who have studied the bible with equal earnestness and managed to reach a different conclusion.

There is no consensus that it's an apple tree.

You're obviously a victim of relativism.

Truth is Truth. A lie is a lie.