Paul and Women in the New Testament

Originally posted by moon1969
The New Testament speaks clearly. Either you believe in the New Testament, or you don't.

1. Women, don't speak in church because it is a shame for you to speak in church. If you have a question, ask your husband at home.

"Let your women keep silence in the churches, for it is not permitted unto them to speak . . . And if they will learn any thing, l ...[text shortened]... eration, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or costly clothing" 1 Timothy 2:9

Would it make you feel good if your wife started arguing in church
with you on what the scriptures meant? How would the other men
in the church view your role as head of the household and the
loving cooperation you both have together? Why would your wife
want to put you down in public? Think about these things.

Originally posted by sonhouse
That'l be the day🙂

Seriously, all this goes to my point that a god would never say one sex is on a higher spiritual plane than another.

Therefore not coming from a god, the whole thing was simply fabricated by men with the end desire to control men and subjugate women. It is right there in the bible. Even in the old testament, 'a man is worth 50 she ...[text shortened]... to control men, build a power base and subjugate women. Plain and simple. No god need apply.

====================================
The whole thing is man made, to control men, build a power base and subjugate women. Plain and simple. No god need apply.
========================================


You're full of crap Mr sonhouse.

I use to wonder how you could say so many stupid things in one day.
Then it occured to me. You get up early!

Originally posted by RJHinds
Would it make you feel good if your wife started arguing in church
with you on what the scriptures meant? How would the other men
in the church view your role as head of the household and the
loving cooperation you both have together? Why would your wife
want to put you down in public? Think about these things.

who says women must argue when they speak? "suffer not a woman to teach" is in some sources. teach, not argue. as a priest stands up and speaks about god, a woman is not allowed to do the same.

she must speak when spoken to, cover her head and be submissive.

and who says that the man must be the head of the household? what if he is an idiot? we had a lovely woman here saying that should her husband decide to put their life savings under a rock in the woods, she will defer to his judgement. even if it would mean her children would starve or not be able to attend college. this is what god wants?


please.

Originally posted by jaywill
[b]=================================
The New Testament speaks clearly. Either you believe in the New Testament, or you don't.
==================================

So you are committed to the clearly spoken teaching of the New Testament now ?

Or is this selective fundamentalism ?[/b]

So do you pick and choose what parts of the New Testament you want to believe.

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
who says women must argue when they speak? "suffer not a woman to teach" is in some sources. teach, not argue. as a priest stands up and speaks about god, a woman is not allowed to do the same.

she must speak when spoken to, cover her head and be submissive.

and who says that the man must be the head of the household? what if he is an idiot? we had a ...[text shortened]... children would starve or not be able to attend college. this is what god wants?


please.

Apparently, at that time women were not knowledgeable enough to
teach in the church either. Paul was giving his advice to that church.
You take it to be a hard and fast command from God. Where does
Paul say it is God's command that all women do this and that under
all situations. What would happen in a Church where all the men had
gone off to war or something? Your interpretation does not make
sense to me.

Originally posted by RJHinds
Apparently, at that time women were not knowledgeable enough to
teach in the church either. Paul was giving his advice to that church.
You take it to be a hard and fast command from God. Where does
Paul say it is God's command that all women do this and that under
all situations. What would happen in a Church where all the men had
gone off to war or something? Your interpretation does not make
sense to me.

you assume too much


i said the rule was idiotic, i didn't say that god said it. and by some rumors, neither did paul. it is rumored that paul's teachings were quite liberal at first but were changed(maybe not by him) in order to appeal to a patriarchal roman empire.


anywhoo, who is to blame women were not knowledgeable enough to teach in church? rather than forbid them to speak, why not educate them? who says that all men were knowledgeable enough to teach in church, yet there isn't a rule saying only men that have something awesome to say should be allowed to do so.

the worthy should lead. the worthy should teach. whether their bits be dangling or kept on the inside doesn't make any difference.

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
you assume too much


i said the rule was idiotic, i didn't say that god said it. and by some rumors, neither did paul. it is rumored that paul's teachings were quite liberal at first but were changed(maybe not by him) in order to appeal to a patriarchal roman empire.


anywhoo, who is to blame women were not knowledgeable enough to teach in church? r ...[text shortened]... uld teach. whether their bits be dangling or kept on the inside doesn't make any difference.

He tells the women to ask their questions to their husbands at home.
So they will eventually be educated without disrupting the time set
aside for their church meeting. Why do you insist on making a big
deal out of this minor portion of Paul's teachings?

Originally posted by RJHinds
Apparently, at that time women were not knowledgeable enough to
teach in the church either. Paul was giving his advice to that church.
You take it to be a hard and fast command from God. Where does
Paul say it is God's command that all women do this and that under
all situations. What would happen in a Church where all the men had
gone off to war or something? Your interpretation does not make
sense to me.

Nice twist RJ.

Originally posted by RJHinds
He tells the women to ask their questions to their husbands at home.
So they will eventually be educated without disrupting the time set
aside for their church meeting. Why do you insist on making a big
deal out of this minor portion of Paul's teachings?

again with the husband is the head of the state. why do women have to ask their husband but the husbands be allowed to ask the priest in church? what if the husband is an idiot? what if a woman has really good ideas and she would like to share them with the congregation?



do you find that at all fair?


and why do you insist to claim i think paul said these? i am skeptical. it may not have been paul. it may have been another lie put in by a patriarchal society wanting to keep their women as slaves.

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
you assume too much


i said the rule was idiotic, i didn't say that god said it. and by some rumors, neither did paul. it is rumored that paul's teachings were quite liberal at first but were changed(maybe not by him) in order to appeal to a patriarchal roman empire.


anywhoo, who is to blame women were not knowledgeable enough to teach in church? r ...[text shortened]... uld teach. whether their bits be dangling or kept on the inside doesn't make any difference.

And please, don't believe in rumors.

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
again with the husband is the head of the state. why do women have to ask their husband but the husbands be allowed to ask the priest in church? what if the husband is an idiot? what if a woman has really good ideas and she would like to share them with the congregation?



do you find that at all fair?


and why do you insist to claim i think paul ...[text shortened]... may have been another lie put in by a patriarchal society wanting to keep their women as slaves.

We need not be concerned about what Paul said to this church unless
or own church has the same problems. Don't magnify this into something
it is not. You are trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill. I am sure
the Christian churches do not need your help on this issue and neither do
the women.

Originally posted by moon1969
"It is good for a man not to touch a woman." 1 Corinthians 7:1.

"Let your women keep silence in the churches, for it is not permitted unto them to speak . . . And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church." 1 Corinthians 14:34-35.

"Let the woman learn in silence with all subj ...[text shortened]... d moderation, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or costly clothing" 1 Timothy 2:9

Romans 16:1 [ Personal Greetings ] I commend to you our sister Phoebe, a deacon of the church in Cenchreae.

As a deacon was she able to speak back then or not?

Originally posted by RBHILL
Romans 16:1 [ Personal Greetings ] I commend to you our sister Phoebe, a deacon of the church in Cenchreae.

As a deacon was she able to speak back then or not?

Oh so you found a contradiction in the Bible. I didn't think there were any. Which contradiction is the right one to follow, and how do you pick and choose.

And I promise you there aint't no female deacons in fundamentalist protestant churches in the US.

Originally posted by moon1969
Oh so you found a contradiction in the Bible. I didn't think there were any. Which contradiction is the right one to follow, and how do you pick and choose.

And I promise you there aint't no female deacons in fundamentalist protestant churches in the US.

Besides being an authority on the Holy Bible you also think you are
the authority on the organization of all the Protestant Churches in
the United States of America. How wonderful that we should be
blessed with one so knowledgeable on religious matters.

Originally posted by moon1969
Oh so you found a contradiction in the Bible. I didn't think there were any. Which contradiction is the right one to follow, and how do you pick and choose.

And I promise you there aint't no female deacons in fundamentalist protestant churches in the US.

From the Wikipedia article of Deacons:

The Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod (LC-MS) in the United States has special training and certification programs for deacons and deaconesses. Most LC-MS deacons are trained at Concordia University - Chicago or one of their two seminaries (St. Louis, MO or Fort Wayne, IN). Internet based classes are also available through the Mission Training Center (MTC).

Deacons assist pastors in human care ministry and other roles with the goals of caring for those in need and freeing pastors to focus on word and sacrament ministry. Acts chapter 6, verse 2 describes the function of deacons (servants) then and now, "So the Twelve gathered all the disciples together and said, 'It would not be right for us to neglect the ministry of the word of God in order to wait on tables.'"

Deacons are installed, not ordained, and remain lay persons. The word "ordain" is to be reserved for the pastoral office.

Under most circumstances deacons and deaconesses do not preach or administer the sacraments. Special exceptions may be made for deacons (vicars) who are training to become pastors but must be given by the district president in writing. (A vicar in the LC-MS is a third year seminarian who is doing an internship under a pastor. It should not be confused with the same term in Anglican and other church traditions.)

Evangelical Lutheran Church in America

Deaconess Community (ELCA/ELCIC)

The Deaconess Community, a community of women serving in the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA) and the Evangelical Lutheran Church in Canada (ELCIC) was formed in 1884. These women, who bear the title of 'Sister', proclaim the gospel through ministries of mercy and servant leadership on behalf of both churches for the sake of the world. Since the 1970s the sisters have been allowed to marry.