1. Standard memberblack beetle
    Black Beastie
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    06 Nov '12 08:48
    Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
    Not what I was looking for, but I probably could have phrased my request better.

    Let me try a different way.

    Is the following a high level view of what you term 'delusion'?
    However the physical world and everything in it, our minds included, are empty products of the mind that is experiencing the reality phenomenally and conventionally inst ...[text shortened]... ch is holistic and non-differentiated.


    If so, can you flesh out a low level view?
    Yes.
    To superimpose inherent existence to any observer (objects, subjects, sentient beings, causal fields etc.) of the physical world, is a product of a false evaluation. To beleive that this superposition holds, is delusion
    😵
  2. Standard memberblack beetle
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    06 Nov '12 08:52
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    I said, "According to some Buddhist sects", that does not mean "all." Satan is always making changes to deceive newbies like you. I don't have to study these new ideas, because I know it is from the same source, "the father of lies", because it is nonsense masquerading as truth. 😏
    Methinks "Satan" is in your mind alone.
    If you don't "study new ideas", your opinion as regards their essence is more likely to be false
    😵
  3. Standard memberblack beetle
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    06 Nov '12 12:07
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    I said, "According to some Buddhist sects", that does not mean "all." Satan is always making changes to deceive newbies like you. I don't have to study these new ideas, because I know it is from the same source, "the father of lies", because it is nonsense masquerading as truth. 😏
    Furthermore, methinks it could be good for you to study a bit deeper the core ideas of your religion; you could probably find a diamond or two at the following:

    -- "Keep always your mind focused on G-d. Say the prayer, talk with G-d. When the man does this work, first he feels G-d’s love a bit , and later, as he is moving on, he feels it more and more. Then his mind is permanently in G-d, and nothing earthly and vain moves him no more. In his heart burns the flaring love for G-d and no longer he wants to think anything other than God. He is indifferent to all the things of the world and he is always focused on the Heavenly Father. You see, those who deal with science, are absorbed in full by their science and they come up with innovations. But where is our absorption by Christ?

    When you have the spiritual love turned on, all the chest becomes a flame. The man is burning of the great sweet flame of G-d's love, he is flying, he loves with the love of the real parent. This inner flame, which was lit by Christ Himself in His love, warms the body much more noticeable than the real fire and has the power to burn any trash, any bad though and any ill will and evil projection. Then the soul feels the divine pleasures, which cannot be compared with any other pleasure.

    What a big evil we most people are doing when we do not want to give our love to Christ, but to have it wasted on earthy, cheap and vain things! A life of even one thousand years long, a life where one could even have thousands of hearts, is not enough to be given to Christ in order to pay back His great love for us, a love He showed and always shows, a love that forgives us, tolerates us and cleans our souls with the divine blood.

    Nobody can conceive how much G-d loves the human being. His love cannot be compared to anything. It has no limits. It is so great that, if the man can manage to feel even the slightest bit of this love, his heart of clay cannot bear it. His heart of clay will be dissolved, because it is made of clay.
    When someone can manage to give his heart to G-d, then he loves everything. Not only all people. But the birds and the trees, even the snakes.

    If the man can get to end up drunk spiritually with the heavenly wine, his life here on Earth becomes awful, awful of course in a good sense. This man becomes useless to this world, becomes indifferent to everything earthly and considers whatever is of this world as “chaff”. To be high on the heavenly wine is good, but one has to be always in there, in that endless heavenly barrel. I hope you all may find the divine heavenly cock, and drink, and get drunk always enjoying the heavenly wine!

    1 Cor. 10:24! The cornerstone of the spiritual life is this: to forget yourself in a good way and to think of the other, to participate in the pain and the problems of the other. To look not how to break free from the problems, but how to help the other so that he can rest.

    Those who have cosmic love, they argue in order to grab more love for themselves. But those who have spiritual, accurate love, they quarrel in order to give more love to the other. They love without thinking whether they are loved or not loved by the others, nor they ask the others to love them. They want to give more and to offer themselves, without wanting from the others to give to them back. These people are loved by all, and more so by G-d, with Whom they are related.

    In pain lies more love than the normal love. Because, when you hurt the other, you love him a little more. Love with pain is to tighten your arms around your brother who has evil thoughts and then easing the evil thoughts to become annihilated. Because this tight love, the spiritual love that is bonded with the pain, it gives solace to the divine G-d's creatures, it chokes the demons, it frees the souls and it heals wounds with the balm of Christ's love. The spiritual man is all a pain. He melts from his suffering in behalf of the others, he wishes well, he comforts the others. And while he is taking the pain of the others he is always happy, because Christ gets his pain and offers him spiritual consolation.

    To truly be spiritually happy, one must love, and to love one must believe. The people do not believe and therefore they do not love, the do not sacrifice themselves and they do not rejoice. If they believed they could love, they could immolate themselves and they could rejoice. The sacrifice brings up the joy supreme.

    When you love, you rejoice. And when the love is increased, the man does not seek the joy for himself but he wants to others rejoicing. The divine joy comes through by means giving.

    Once upon a time an everyday man prayed G-d to show him the Paradise and the Hell. So one night in his sleep he heard a voice saying: “Come, let me show you the Hell”. So he found himself in a room where many people sat around a table, and in the middle there was a huge pot full of food. But all the people were hungry because they could not eat. In their hands they were holding a long dipper. They∙were taking the pot from the food, but they could not bear the spoon in their mouth. As a result others were grumbling, others were quarreling, others were crying...
    Then the everyday man heard the same voice saying: “Come, let me show you the Paradise”. So the man found himself in another room where many people were sitting around a table similar to the previous one and in the middle was still the same pot of food and everybody had the same long spoons. But everyone was fed, and happy, because everyone got the scoop of food from the pot and feed the other.

    Now you understand how you too can live this life too in Paradise?"

    This is an extract from one of Venerable Monk Paisios' books that I have the pleasure to narrate this period. The books are published strictly in Greek, so I translated the extract in English in a hurry especially for you, so you can see just one of the skilful means amongst the many the Orthodox monks of Agion Oros have at their disposal when they want to pass the essence of the Christian religion to the people.
    Of cource these skilful means are more suitable for newbies, not for the advanced Christian disciples like yourself
    😵
  4. Joined
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    06 Nov '12 17:511 edit
    Originally posted by black beetle
    Yes.
    To superimpose inherent existence to any observer (objects, subjects, sentient beings, causal fields etc.) of the physical world, is a product of a false evaluation. To beleive that this superposition holds, is delusion
    😵
    Can you justify that this belief is true and not a delusion in and of itself? Or does it essentially come down to "faith"?
  5. Standard memberblack beetle
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    06 Nov '12 19:50
    Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
    Can you justify that this belief is true and not a delusion in and of itself? Or does it essentially come down to "faith"?
    The system that justifies it, is called "Madhyamaka" and it has nothing to do with faith. As I already told you, a Madhyamika treats all the concepts and the imputations as if the entities they denoted were inherently existent, and then demonstrates the impossible consequences that follow.
    I am a well versed Madhyamika, however it is time consuming to explain the system in detail to somebody who is not aware of its basic principles. Kindly please check it out on your own, and in case you have questions I would be more than pleased to discuss with you everything in length. If you cannot check it out, then I will expose in full to you its logic
    😵
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