Originally posted by bbarr
But who is the one? And whose face is seen? And who is doing the seeing? These are just verbal games, and pointless. This is why I rarely talk about my internal work here in the fora. There is just no way to explain it without speaking nonsense. In any case, you are presupposing that "full understanding" has motivational and practical entailments. That' ...[text shortened]... means that you pack everything I was saying above into the notion of "full understanding".
"One" is the individual. And the individual "sees his face before his/ her birth" when s/he is aware of the exact essense of her/ his own nature. This approach, based on this specific koan, is neither verbal game nor pointless to the members of the zennist community.
You may rarely talk about your own internal work here or there, but I was talking solely about specific products out of specific ways of meditation. And surely there is a way to explain it without speaking nonsense: in our tradition we are transmitting these "products" directly from mind to mind through objects (that they are causing specific mental stages).
In any case I am not presupossing at all that "full understanding" has motivational and practical entailments although by means of "full understanding" one (the practitioner, that is) covers motivational and practical entailments too by means of stopping the suffering (that is caused out of an ever moving mind). I just mentioned that without "full understanding" the practitioner remains dead in water because there is no wu wei at all!
However, I do pack everything you were saying above into the notion of "full understanding"
😵