Matthew 24:34

Originally posted by 667joe
Matthew 24:34 clearly states that Jesus tells his listeners that judgment day will come before the generation he is speaking to passes away. He says the sun will stop shining and the stars will fall from the sky and he ( Jesus)will come riding down from the sky in glory. As far as I know, this has not happened and everyone from that generation is long gone. ...[text shortened]... of the bible.

I can hardly wait for the believers to produce a way around this obvious error.

I've said, again and again, that prophecies doesn't work. Not even if it comes from Jesus himself. There just aren't such things as prophecies!

Stars (plural) will fall from the sky? It takes only one and it must travel light years to reach Earth, and the earth is no more. How can more than one star fall from the sky?

Never, I repeat: never!, use the bible as a textbook in physics!

Originally posted by FabianFnas
I've said, again and again, that prophecies doesn't work. Not even if it comes from Jesus himself. There just aren't such things as prophecies!

Stars (plural) will fall from the sky? It takes only one and it must travel light years to reach Earth, and the earth is no more. How can more than one star fall from the sky?

Never, I repeat: never!, use the bible as a textbook in physics!

ummm i dont know if it has crossed your mind, but, err, ummm, have you never considered that it may be metaphor for something other than the obvious?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
ummm i dont know if it has crossed your mind, but, err, ummm, have you never considered that it may be metaphor for something other than the obvious?

You mean that the bible is written in the same whay that Nostradamus wrote his prophecies? Or that Jesus didn't say what he meant? That the all reading is something about guesswork rather than facts?

Tell me the not so obvious metaphor and I respnd to that.

Originally posted by FabianFnas
You mean that the bible is written in the same whay that Nostradamus wrote his prophecies? Or that Jesus didn't say what he meant? That the all reading is something about guesswork rather than facts?

Tell me the not so obvious metaphor and I respnd to that.

have you not a mind of your own? as broad as the universe? well use it my good man!

The use of the word "generation" in the New Testament does not always denote the typical life span as in Matthew 1:17. It has a more general usage in places, meaning a moral climate, or moral condition of the people.

For example:

"But to what shall I liken this generation? It is like little children sitting in the marketplaces, who call to others and say, We have played the flute to you, nd you did not dance; we have sung a dirge, and you did not mourn." (Matt. 11:16,17)

Here generation denotes a moral attitude and condition of society.

"But He answered and said to them, An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and a sing shall not be given to it except the sign of Jonah the prophet." (Matt. 12:39)

Generation here also discribes moral condition of seeking miracles but missing the importance of Christ's death and resurrection - "the sign of Jonah".

Verses 41, 42 and 45 would also be this usage of the word in speaking of "this generation".

In the Old Testament the sense of a moral generation is also seen in Proverbs 30:11-14"

"There is a generation that curses their father, and do not bless their mother.

There is a generation that are pure in thier own eyes, and yet are not washed from their filthiness.

There is a generation whose teeth are like swords, and their jaw teeth like knives, to devour the afflicted from off the earth, and the needy from among men. "

This is Hebrew but the concept is similar. The generation is not a typical human life span but rather a time characterized a certain moral climate of society.

I believe that this is the sense of generation used by Christ in Matthew 24:34. At any rate Jesus Christ assures us that what He has spoken cannot fail to occur because of next two sentences following verse 34:

"Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words shall by no means pass away." (v. 35)

His promise is so strong as to be able to out last the physical universe itself. So we should not doubt that His prediction will come to pass.

If it were that obvious as to when this time of His second coming were to occur then He probably would not have added the saying of verse 35:

"But concerning that day and hour, no one knows, not even the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but the Father only." (v.36)

All told, I wouldn't trust joe's interpretation of a mistake in Matthew 24.

And at any rate, it is all over for joe and everyone else the moment they die, if they should die before Christ's second coming. For the Bible says:

"And inasmuch as it is reerved for men to die once, and after this comes judgment." (Hebrews 9:27)

So joe should be aware the judgement from God upon him could come unexpectedly at any moment after he dies. If he should per chance crash in an automobile, divine judgment will come to him without the spectacular world calamities.

So for this reason I would advize everyone not to assume that their judgment from God will necessarily be accompanied with world wide supernatural events. Since death can come unexpectedly at any moment, it is best to trust Christ the Savior for forgiveness of sins while one has opportunity.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
have you not a mind of your own? as broad as the universe? well use it my good man!

Of course I have. The question is - can you take it?

Jesus didn't write anything. What he said or did not say is just hearsay. Nothing more. We just don't know anything about the life of Jesus, just by reading the gospels. To use the texts of the bible and treat is as facts is futile. Believe it or not.

That's how I use my own mind.

Now tell me the not so obvious metaphores.

Originally posted by FabianFnas
Of course I have. The question is - can you take it?

Jesus didn't write anything. What he said or did not say is just hearsay. Nothing more. We just don't know anything about the life of Jesus, just by reading the gospels. To use the texts of the bible and treat is as facts is futile. Believe it or not.

That's how I use my own mind.

Now tell me the not so obvious metaphores.

==================================
Jesus didn't write anything. What he said or did not say is just hearsay. Nothing more. We just don't know anything about the life of Jesus, just by reading the gospels. To use the texts of the bible and treat is as facts is futile. Believe it or not.
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With just about as much rationale I can say you never wrote anything here so we don't know what you really think.

I mean we do not have your handwriting and the technology puts so many layers of mechanics between what you MAY have thought and what was actually typed, compiled, assembled, transmitted, and made to appear on some screen.

Who knows what FabianFnas REALLY thought ???

Originally posted by jaywill
[b]==================================
Jesus didn't write anything. What he said or did not say is just hearsay. Nothing more. We just don't know anything about the life of Jesus, just by reading the gospels. To use the texts of the bible and treat is as facts is futile. Believe it or not.
================================

With just about as m ...[text shortened]... smitted, and made to appear on some screen.

Who knows what FabianFnas REALLY thought ???[/b]

Right. You will never know what I really think. You don't even know who I really am. Is this some kind of revelation to you?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
a more pertinent question would be, how Christ was able to foretell the destruction of Jerusalem, decades in advance, with chilling accuracy!

Considering the destructive attitude of the Roman Empire, i think it would be more chillingly accurate if Jesus had foretold which city wouldn't be destroyed.

Originally posted by Proper Knob
Considering the destructive attitude of the Roman Empire, i think it would be more chillingly accurate if Jesus had foretold which city wouldn't be destroyed.

ahhh, how very interesting ol Noobster. Have you read the account of Flavius Josephus, concerning the utter obliteration of Jerusalem at he hands of the merciless Romans? It cannot be said of any other city, for while the Jews were as a whole opposed to Romans, many were the Galilean city's which opened their gates to them. It was only Jerusalem, where the entire nations of Jews from all parts had converged for a festival which suffered so terribly. Christ's words are particularly apt, in this regard. of those not killed by the Romans, they were enslaved and bound for the triumphal procession, to be paraded and enter the arena. the prophecy itself, must have had a further fulfilment, a greater fulfilment if you like, for the goodnews of the Kingdom was not preached in all the entire earth etc etc. Thus the prophecy serves as a portent of what is to come upon a generation which observes those aspects of Christ's prophecy in their entirety. International wars, major famines, preponderance of earthquakes etc etc.

however the details will make the hairs of your head (if you have any, but going by the avatar i can only speculate) stand on end. here is the parallel account at luke, which contains the information which you seek! Lol, i sound like some mountain hermit, Lol.

“Furthermore, when you see Jerusalem surrounded by encamped armies, then know that the desolating of her has drawn near.  Then let those in Judea begin fleeing to the mountains, and let those in the midst of her withdraw, and let those in the country places not enter into her; because these are days for meting out justice, that all the things written may be fulfilled. Woe to the pregnant women and the ones suckling a baby in those days! For there will be great necessity upon the land and wrath on this people; and they will fall by the edge of the sword and be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled on by the nations, until the appointed times of the nations are fulfilled.
“Also, there will be signs in sun and moon and stars, and on the earth anguish of nations....

what is so chilling my friend, is that initially the Romans surrounded Jerusalem under the leadership of Cestius Gallus, and then , for no apparent reason withdrew, those who had knowledge of Christs prophecy, were able to withdraw as instructed, those who paid it no heed, well....

Originally posted by FabianFnas
Of course I have. The question is - can you take it?

Jesus didn't write anything. What he said or did not say is just hearsay. Nothing more. We just don't know anything about the life of Jesus, just by reading the gospels. To use the texts of the bible and treat is as facts is futile. Believe it or not.

That's how I use my own mind.

Now tell me the not so obvious metaphores.

your right i cannot take, i should have known better, it somehow is just lacking in credibility, call me a sucker for a bargain, but well you know, corroborating evidence and the like or in this case lack of.

earthquakes - http://www.earth.webecs.co.uk/index.htm
hunger and famine - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8306556.stm
war - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_cycles

fallacy, i dont think so.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
ahhh, how very interesting ol Noobster. Have you read the account of Flavius Josephus, concerning the utter obliteration of Jerusalem at he hands of the merciless Romans? It cannot be said of any other city, for while the Jews were as a whole opposed to Romans, many were the Galilean city's which opened their gates to them. It was only Jerusalem, w ...[text shortened]... of Christs prophecy, were able to withdraw as instructed, those who paid it no heed, well....

Call me a cynic, but here's another suggestion. Most contemporary scholars date the gospel of Matthew between 70-100AD (although i admit some disagree), most probably written after the Romans sacked Jerusalem. Write the gospel after the event, attribute some words to Jesus predicting the future, and hey presto, you have a phrophecy!!!!!

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
your right i cannot take, i should have known better, it somehow is just lacking in credibility, call me a sucker for a bargain, but well you know, corroborating evidence and the like or in this case lack of.

Still missing the obvious metaphores...

Or do you think that it is possible to read the bible as I want? Take it word by word where I want, and symbolically where I want? Is it always in the eye of the beholder?

Then I understand why so few christians agree to eachother, and so many funny cults arises from time to time. Christianity isn't one religion, it's a whole bunch of them, mutually different, even in important aspects.

Originally posted by Proper Knob
Call me a cynic, but here's another suggestion. Most contemporary scholars date the gospel of Matthew between 70-100AD (although i admit some disagree), most probably written after the Romans sacked Jerusalem. Write the gospel after the event, attribute some words to Jesus predicting the future, and hey presto, you have a phrophecy!!!!!

i wont call you a cynic Noobster, but as you are aware the prophecy speaks for itself, otherwise how do you account for the escalation in violence, the escalation in famine and the preponderance of earthquakes? just another cosmic coincidence?