Jesus Christ Changed the World

@divegeester said
When you pray for your god to "get me", do you ever feel convicted of your loathing of me Joseph?

You're projecting.

@secondson said
You're projecting.

What am I projecting?

@wolfgang59 said
Outright lying.
Is that not enough?

No it's not enough. Facts and truth are of little importance to many Christians.

For example, KJ "likes" the OP because it makes him feel good. KJ believes the OP because it makes him feel good.

Many Christians think that things are true simply because they believe them - that things are true by "faith alone". They believe them because believing them makes them feel good. This is what renders them incapable of rationally discussing their "faith"

@wolfgang59 said
And nobody has replied to my refutations of the original OP text......

You have given no evidence to support your claims. Should we just take your word for it?

@dj2becker said
Which churches? What has he lied about?

About Mandela admitting to terrorism.
About Gandhi having sex with his sister.
Usual right-wing looney-tunes fake news.

Google is friend.

@dj2becker said
You have given no evidence to support your claims. Should we just take your word for it?

You have just posted a compendium of lies and you are asking about taking my word!
LOL
You can quickly google everything I've posted.

@ThinkOfOne

Many Christians think that things are true simply because they believe them - that things are true by "faith alone". They believe them because believing them makes them feel good. This is what renders them incapable of rationally discussing their "faith"

I will rationally discuss faith with you whenever you wish.
Jesus Christ is a believable Person.

Rationally, I think the power of His deeds matches the power of His words.
They are rationally consistent with each other.

@sonship said
@ThinkOfOne

Many Christians think that things are true simply because they believe them - that things are true by "faith alone". They believe them because believing them makes them feel good. This is what renders them incapable of rationally discussing their "faith"

I will rationally discuss faith with you whenever you wish.
Jesus Christ is a believabl ...[text shortened]... power of His deeds matches the power of His words.
They are rationally consistent with each other.

Unfortunately the vast majority of those rendered incapable of rationally discussing their "faith" believe themselves capable.

@ThinkOfOne

Unfortunately the vast majority of those rendered incapable of rationally discussing their "faith" believe themselves capable.

Do you think that you have demonstrated exemplar rationale discussion when asked repeatedly for clarification of your position? I would say only if silence is your rationale.

Is the ministry of Christ described in the New Testament after His resurrection a pack of LIES ?

@sonship said
@ThinkOfOne

Unfortunately the vast majority of those rendered incapable of rationally discussing their "faith" believe themselves capable.

Do you think that you have demonstrated exemplar rationale discussion when asked repeatedly for clarification of your position? I would say only if silence is your rationale.

Is the ministry of Christ described in the New Testament after His resurrection a pack of LIES ?

Over the years I've made my position quite clear. More clear than probably any other poster on this forum. For example, I've posted the following or variations thereof many a time:

By and large, I find the gospel preached by Jesus during His ministry to be reasonably sound and reasonably coherent within itself. I don't share that view of the mythology and beliefs that the NT writers wrapped around them. At best, they can merely echo His words. At worst, they deviate from His words and at times substantially so.   

The truth in the gospel preached by Jesus during His ministry still rings out loud and clear despite the corruptions that were introduced by the NT writers. The core of His gospel are contained in the parables, explanations of the parables, the Sermon on the Mount, passages where Jesus is explicitly describing the Kingdom and what living in the Kingdom entails, passages where Jesus is explicitly describing what is required for "eternal life" / living in the Kingdom etc. In short, passages where Jesus is explicitly preaching the vision of His gospel.   

By limiting the Bible to the gospel preached by Jesus during His ministry and those words that are consistent with those words, most of the inconsistencies, discrepancies and outright contradictions are weeded out.

@ThinkOfOne

By and large, I find the gospel preached by Jesus during His ministry to be reasonably sound and reasonably coherent within itself.

So far what is here is just a statement of your own subjective opinion about what you select and discard to believe. Its already an assertion about the vaguary of "the gospel preached by Jesus during His ministry."

Ie. "I believe what I believe what I believe." "Some comes up to MY standard of credibility and some does not."

This seems posturing to sound objective but all the while opinionated with subjectrive bias.

I don't share that view of the mythology and beliefs that the NT writers wrapped around them.

You haven't proved any mythology. You've just asserted it. I don't know why you consider this paragraph a good model of you being forthcoming about a good rationale why your arbitrary limits to authenticity are just to be trusted because its ... well, YOU.

At best, they can merely echo His words. At worst, they deviate from His words and at times substantially so.

This has an intellectual sound to it. Would you submit TWO of your STRONGEST cases in the NT document of Christ's deeds being out of character with His teachings?

God would be able to perform miracles if He wanted to do manifest something important. God would be able to do a RARE event if God wanted it to STICK OUT among all run of the mill events in history.

I think you have written off this possibility up front. I assume what your starting point is is:

NO God.
NO God doing an notable event.
NO truth to the gospel writers claims to have witnessed Christ do this.

I see no rationale yet WHY you should be more trusted or why your presuppositions are a more realistic starting point of analysis.

The truth in the gospel preached by Jesus during His ministry still rings out loud and clear despite the corruptions that were introduced by the NT writers.

There is always a matter of people's interpretation. What I hear is that you've selected what to discard. And what you have salvaged reinforces the "clarity" of your personal philosophy. Your opinion is "the truth". Yet it will reveal a violent torturing of the text, editing through your arbitrary filter, and really twisting of many plain words of Jesus and those closer to His earthly walk then you.

There is no reason you should be trusted more than the writers of Matthew, Mark, Luke, John. And the autobiographical Second Corinthians reveals someone closer to the ministry then you by a couple thousand YEARS.

And Paul had the advantage of going from a desperate OPPOSER of the message to an enthusiastic supporter. He started out MORE on your skeptical side then YOUR skepticism.

Well, he did believe in God though, which I think you do not.

The core of His gospel are contained in the parables, explanations of the parables, the Sermon on the Mount, passages where Jesus is explicitly describing the Kingdom and what living in the Kingdom entails, passages where Jesus is explicitly describing what is required for "eternal life" / living in the Kingdom etc.

That is your big fat OPINION as to where YOU ANNOUNCE the "CORE" of the New Testament is. Your "CORE" is just YOUR SELECTION of the things which come up to the standard of YOUR personal philosophy of life.

Essentially, you want to USE Jesus Christ to dignify what you'd accept as a philosophy of life whether He lived or not.

I detect in this an attitude of "Nothing Jesus did or said can offend me. BECAUSE I don't believe ANYTHING I would not already approve of HE did or said."

All I see is your huge subjective FILTERING going on which the rest of us should just learn to trust, because its YOU.

In short, passages where Jesus is explicitly preaching the vision of His gospel.

This is vague and rather circular. It is a way to avoid being penned down to specifics, to some dubious advantage to the agnostic / atheist.

By limiting the Bible to the gospel preached by Jesus during His ministry

Begging the question.

Ie. "His ministry while on earth is His ministry while on earth which is His ministry while on earth."

You mean things which you'll accept because you'd like to say "Jesus confirms MY world view."

and those words that are consistent with those words,

Begging the question, circular.

most of the inconsistencies, discrepancies and outright contradictions are weeded out.

By applying your subjective opinionated FILTER we are going to wined up with even worse inconsistencies, discrepancies, and outright contradictions.

Your conspiracy theory I would find requires more "blind leap of faith" then the consistency of the whole message of the New Testament.

I don't say there are no difficulties anywhere in the text. I think your skeptical filter will involve us in worst difficulties. I think you realize that and therefore cleverly avoid specifics.

Its hard to appear objective when coming to the New Testament already committed to removing God from it.

@thinkofone said
No it's not enough. Facts and truth are of little importance to many Christians.

For example, KJ "likes" the OP because it makes him feel good. KJ believes the OP because it makes him feel good.

Many Christians think that things are true simply because they believe them - that things are true by "faith alone". They believe them because believing them makes them feel good. This is what renders them incapable of rationally discussing their "faith"

Still waiting for you to come up with the lies that Christianity is built upon.

@dj2becker said
I got this article in an email and I would like to have your thoughts on it.

JESUS CHRIST CHANGED the WORLD



Transforming Time
Jesus Christ changed the world forever. When He was born, He transformed the very way we measure time. He turned aside the river of the ages and lifted the centuries off their hinges. His birthday, His Incarnation, touched and transforme ...[text shortened]... aven.
He endured what we deserve – that we might enjoy what only He deserves.

-Dr. Peter Hammond

I think it a mistake to say that morality entered the world consciousness ONLY when Jesus entered the world.

For example, the teaching Jesus gave about loving your enemies, read this from Socrates.

"One should never do wrong in return, nor mistreat any man, no matter how one has been mistreated by him"

In fact, many of his teachings eerily sound like those of Jesus.

"I was afraid that by observing with my eyes and trying to comprehend them with each of my other senses I might blind my soul altogether"

Or how about his insight on his own future demise?

"A man who really fights for justice must lead a private, not a public, life if he is to survive for even a short time".

And so it was with Jesus. They murdered him as well for speaking the truth.

What I will say is this, Western Civilization benefited greatly by at least letting the Gospel influence the culture for as long as it did. But as Western culture continues to turn its back on the God of the Bible they will once again return to the carnage of ancient cultures who once sacrificed their children to the gods for material gain. In fact, that is what abortion is all about.

@thinkofone said
My thoughts exactly. It's literally cringeworthy.

Christianity itself is built upon a foundation of lies and inaccuracies. As such many Christians think that things are true simply because they believe them - that things are true by "faith alone".

Obviously, anyone can say that the foundation stories are made up or somehow just lies. Whatever, I am not that curious about debating the non-existent objective evidence concerning Christ existing personally at that time.

I am curious what inaccuracies you think are at the base of all of this, though.

@wolfgang59 said
About Mandela admitting to terrorism.
About Gandhi having sex with his sister.
Usual right-wing looney-tunes fake news.

Google is friend.

You heard him say this? Or you just lapping up the slander?

How would you know if it weren’t true?