16 Oct '06 09:46>1 edit
Originally posted by Bosse de NageNot if I've sanctioned it (for my kids, that is).
I'd be very concerned if my local scout troop added religion and politics to normal scouting activities. Wouldn't you?
Originally posted by lucifershammerIn my case, the combination of politics, religion, and young children. That is enough to bother me. Remove politics from the mix and it might just be another harmless Bible camp...
Yes - prayer (I should've said "singing hymns and praying" ).
Be specific -- which items on the list of activities bothers you?
Originally posted by lucifershammerOK, your scoutmaster asks your kids to repent their sins, cradle plastic fetuses and (let's presume you are a USA citizen) ask God to guide President Bush in nominating anti-abortion judges. Would you sanction that?
Not if I've sanctioned it (for my kids, that is).
Originally posted by lucifershammerI think age and content are very important factors.
Isn't that true of any group situation involving kids? Couldn't you, for instance, say the same about the Boy Scouts or the Soccer Team? Are you suggesting we do away with these as well?
Originally posted by Bosse de NageWhat's the rationale behind removing politics from the mix? Are you saying that young kids should not have any political exposure at all?
In my case, the combination of politics, religion, and young children. That is enough to bother me. Remove politics from the mix and it might just be another harmless Bible camp...
Originally posted by Bosse de NageAssuming for the moment that those are the only "non scouting" things he does -- yes I would.
OK, your scoutmaster asks your kids to repent their sins, cradle plastic fetuses and (let's presume you are a USA citizen) ask God to guide President Bush in nominating anti-abortion judges. Would you sanction that?
Originally posted by lucifershammerTo avoid the possibility of political indoctrination.
What's the rationale behind removing politics from the mix?
Originally posted by twhiteheadIf they were over 15 then they would me much more dangerous than say under 15s.
I think age and content are very important factors.
I have not seen the film nor do I know what age the children in question are. If they were over 15 then they would me much more dangerous than say under 15s.
I think that with both boy scouts and soccer teams as well as church youth groups, the parents of the children should be kept aware of the conten ...[text shortened]... tell outright lies (that they themselves dont believe) to try and win converts amongst children.
Originally posted by Bosse de NageI read your post about veldskool. But there is simply no way to "avoid the possibility of political indoctrination". If my Dad picks up the morning paper and curses President Bush and the Republicans, he's already "indoctrinating" me (even if I'm only six years old). If my Dad or Uncle is an enthusiastic Democrat or Republican, that's going to have as big an influence (if not bigger) than any camps or rallies I attend. How do you suggest we police such domestic indoctrination?
To avoid the possibility of political indoctrination.
Did you read my post about veldskool? I should emphasise that Christianity was promoted there as the way to go, and that communists were to be feared not only for the security threat they posed but also because they were "godless", a charge evoking sense of nameless doom.
Originally posted by lucifershammerPeople make their own choices. Yes, one's parents' politics doubtless influence one's political thinking one way or another (children are just as likely to rebel against their parents' views as embrace them). In any case, being told what to think and what to pray removes the element of choice. It also invites authorities to set up targets--"these people are your enemies" (commies, fags, towelheads, abortionists). I'm in favour of learning environments that promote choice rather than restrict it--where Dad's politics can be compared with other views, so children can develop their own thinking.
I read your post about veldskool. But there is simply no way to "avoid the possibility of political indoctrination".
Originally posted by Bosse de NageWe always tell our kids what to think ("Why can't I just take Bobby's train?" "You can't -- that's wrong." "But why?" "Would you like it if Bobby or someone else did it to you?" "But I'm the strongest in class, no one can take it away from me" "*exasperated* Well you can't because it's wrong and that's that. When you're older you'll understand why" ) and what to choose -- anyone who claims otherwise has either never raised a child or is just plain lying. The idea of "learning environments" is fine with older kids, but you cannot discuss virtue ethics or deontological ethics with an eight-year old.
People make their own choices. Yes, one's parents' politics doubtless influence one's political thinking one way or another (children are just as likely to rebel against their parents' views as embrace them). In any case, being told what to think and what to pray removes the element of choice. It also invites authorities to set up targets--"these peopl tion the scout organisation to have this scoutmaster removed. What's your response?
Originally posted by lucifershammerYes, which is why it's inappropriate for eight-year-olds to be placed in a situation where they are encouraged to see themselves as "soldiers of the Lord" fighting various ideological "enemies". An indoctrination camp is an unsuitable learning environment for children.
The idea of "learning environments" is fine with older kids, but you cannot discuss virtue ethics or deontological ethics with an eight-year old.
Do you think a child who's told by his/her mother to recycle is given a "choice" in the household? Or that parents who encourage their kids to eat healthy provide them a nutrition chart that explains what there are Christian scouting organisations -- I presume we're talking about one of them.
Originally posted by Bosse de NageYes, which is why it's inappropriate for eight-year-olds to be placed in a situation where they are encouraged to see themselves as "soldiers of the Lord" fighting various ideological "enemies". An indoctrination camp is an unsuitable learning environment for children.
Yes, which is why it's inappropriate for eight-year-olds to be placed in a situation where they are encouraged to see themselves as "soldiers of the Lord" fighting various ideological "enemies". An indoctrination camp is an unsuitable learning environment for children.
Our hypothetical scout troop is not a specifically Christian organisation but a ...[text shortened]... duties. He respects the beliefs of others.
http://www.prismatic.com/troop103/scoutlaw.htm