God loves and hates!

@KellyJay

It was disobeying God that brought death. The issues in play were not that God wanted to keep that information from us, but how and when we were to learn. God knew all about them, but when Adam and Eve ate they became aware through experience, which meant that knowledge became apart of their and our makeup the good and evil.

We keep things from our kids until we think they are ready.

Thankyou.

My thoughts - When Adam and Eve ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil they had two problems. One was that they disobeyed God. The other was that a foreign element entered into them corrupting and polluting them.

They were joined to Satan. They were infested with the evil spirit that now WORKS in the sons of disobedience.

"And you, though dead in your offenses and sins, in which you once walked according to the age of this world, according to the ruler of the authority of the air, of the spirit which is now operating in the sons of disobedience." (Eph. 2:1,2)

The evil Satanic spirit began to operate IN THEM. They were invaded with a being, the evil ruler of the air, who began to OPERATE in them.

The neutral man placed between receiving God as life and Satan as the one "who has the might of death" (Hebrews 2:14) .

From a neutral position between God and Satan they moved.
From a stage of innocence and neutrality they moved to be joined to Satan who has "the might of death".

Consider a child whose mother warns her not to drink of a certain bottle which contains poison. If the child disobeys the mother's command the child ends up with two problems.

1.) She has disobeyed the command of the mother.
2.) She has gotten into her body the poison.

Because Adam was JOINED to Satan Romans, I believe, says that he was CONSTITUTED a sinner. His constitution was altered. His constitution was polluted with a foreign element like a poison.

Death entered in through Adam's disobedience for certain.
But we were CONSTITUTED sinners by what he took into himself and became joined to.

For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were CONSTITUTED sinners, so also through the obedience of the One the many will be CONSTITUTED righteous." (Romans 5:19 Recovery Version )

The spirit that began to operate in mankind changed their constitution, their makeup, the fabric of their being. Something evil began to DWELL in man.

We see Paul saying that he knows that nothing good DWELLS ... in his fallen flesh.

" Now then it is no longer I that work it out but sin that dwells in me." (Rom. 7:17)

For I know that in me, that is in my flesh, nothing good dwells; ...(v.18a)

God created man to be joined to God that God may dwell in him. Satan rushed ahead of God's plan, tempting man and caused man to be JOINED to himself as the evil spirit.

Let's continue latter. I want to re-read your post.

But let me ask you about keeping things from children until they are ready.
When do you think man would be ready to receive this knowledge of good and evil ?

@sonship said
@KellyJay

[quote] It was disobeying God that brought death. The issues in play were not that God wanted to keep that information from us, but how and when we were to learn. God knew all about them, but when Adam and Eve ate they became aware through experience, which meant that knowledge became apart of their and our makeup the good and evil.

We keep things from our ki ...[text shortened]... l they are ready.
When do you think man would be ready to receive this knowledge of good and evil ?

I don’t think I would go so far as to say that they were infested with an evil spirit. The spiritual life that they had, as do we, became corrupt and all on it’s own became disobedient In all things.

@kellyjay said
As a good God will forever hate the wicked,
the evil, sinners, and will not accept them as these all fall short.

@divegeester replied
You could not be more wrong. Your comment is completely erroneous, and unscriptural.

Romans 5: 8
"But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us."

John 3:16
"For God so loved the world (sinners) that he gave is only son...)

You are wrong KellyJay

@kellyjay said
Our warped view of God is love is what people use to think that its all going to be
okay. While God is love, He is also just, and good these are also two things that
are true and will never stop being true. As a good God will forever hate the wicked,
the evil, sinners, and will not accept them as these all fall short.

I heard a sermon the other day that really p ...[text shortened]... il we do keep us
from acknowledging Him for who He is, and loving God and each other as we
should.

The view that God is love is not warped.

What is warped is our view of what love really is.

To have love, both parties must be free to love or reject the other. To have love, one must often upset the other party off by doing what is right verse what they want because we must do what is best for them. To have love, one must be set free even though that may result in their demise.

Yes, love is a double edged sword to be sure.

@stellspalfie said
Does God choose to hate?

Proverbs 11:1
A false balance is an abomination to the Lord, but a just weight is his delight.

Thinking about Who God is and His nature I'd have to say He measures everything
out to the nth degree and identifies what is bad and feels about as He should. I do
not think He treats hate as something He does without cause.

@whodey said
The view that God is love is not warped.

What is warped is our view of what love really is.

To have love, both parties must be free to love or reject the other. To have love, one must often upset the other party off by doing what is right verse what they want because we must do what is best for them. To have love, one must be set free even though that may result in their demise.

Yes, love is a double edged sword to be sure.

They are the same thing, if we confuse what God is like by overemphasizing
anything like His love, we paint a false picture, and that could lead to great
disappointment and unhealthy views about what should be going on, instead of
what is and why.

@kellyjay said
Really you, yourself don't hate it when men do evil things and like it when they
are kind?

Oh I see. You are saying god is like me.
Made in my image.

I love it when KellyJay replies to me then the other part of his brain reminds him that he’s supposed to be ignoring me so he panics and deletes the post 😆

@wolfgang59 said
Oh I see. You are saying god is like me.
Made in my image.

No, scripturally speaking we were made in God's imagine and screwed that up by
allowing sin into our lives. You knew that I bet, but said this anyway.

@kellyjay said
Proverbs 11:1
A false balance is an abomination to the Lord, but a just weight is his delight.

Thinking about Who God is and His nature I'd have to say He measures everything
out to the nth degree and identifies what is bad and feels about as He should. I do
not think He treats hate as something He does without cause.

So he makes a conscious decision to hate?

@KellyJay

I don’t think I would go so far as to say that they were infested with an evil spirit.

I would because of Ephesians 2:2 -

" ... you once walked according to ... the ruler of the authority of the air, of the spirit which is now operating in the sons of disobedience."

This evil spirit is operating in. I take that to mean he is operating from the INSIDE. This "authority of the air" Satan who was in the air in Genesis rushed INTO and IN man when he ate of the fruit of the forbidden tree.

From that time it was a matter of sin dwelling in man. He is working from the outside towards the center. Whereas God's salvation is coming the opposite direction, working from the center of man outward.

1.) Romans 7:5 speaks of the sin nature operating in our members. That is the sin nature operating from in man.

"For when we were in the flesh, the passions of sins, which acted through the law, operated in our members to bear fruit to death." (Rom. 7:5)

2.) Sin was working out death from within the fallen mankind.

"sin ..., that it might be shown to be sin by working out death in me ..." (v.13)

3.) Paul says the sin nature DWELLS in him.

Now it is no longer I who work it out but sin that dwells in me." (v.17)

When do you think in history any man could say "sin dwells in me"?
I would say from the disobedient eating of the forbidden tree SIN began to dwell. It is the working of the spirit of the authority of the air operating IN man.

4.) Paul then says nothing good DWELLS in his flesh. I think he means that the "nothing good" is the sin dwelling in his flesh since man was infested from eating from that tree.

"For I know that in me, that is, in my flesh, nothing good dwells, for to will is present with me, but to work out the good is not." (v.18)

5.) Again, sin DWELLS in the fallen man.

But if what I do not will, this I do, it is no longer I that work it out but sin that dwells in me." (v.20)

6.) He sees an evil law working in the members of his fallen body.

For I delight iin the law of God according to the inner man, But I see a different law in my members, warring against the law of my mind and making me a captive to the law of sin which is in my members." (v.23)

7.) The whole fallen body and corrupted flesh is called "the body of this death".

"Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from the body of this death?" (v.24)

"[T]his death" involves not only expiring as the heart stops, but weakness, slavery, and defeat under the stronger power of the sin nature.

This infestation of man started when Adam and Eve ATE of the mysterious tree of the knowledge of good and evil. They were joined "organically" to Satan. They became Satanified, infested and corrupted. The original created body commuted into something fallen and infested.

The spiritual life that they had, as do we, became corrupt and all on it’s own became disobedient In all things.

I don't think it is possible to know what the state of innocence and neutrality was into which Adam and Eve were created. It is hard for me to know what it was like to be good by creation and innocent faced with a choice to receive God or receive someone else.

Adam was not created dead. His spirit certainly was not dead or deadened yet. But I think he had not been regenerated. How "spiritual" he was before he fell, I am not sure.

@stellspalfie said
So he makes a conscious decision to hate?

If an act of terror occurs against innocent children for example, I would choose to hate it, and because of who it was directed at, it wouldn’t take much deliberation on my part.

There could be less stark events where thoughtfulness might be required on our part. That would never be true with God because of who He is. We live and have our being in a sliver of time we call now, God isn’t bound by time and He knows everything that is and how it could play out. This is one of the main reasons scripture points out His ways are not ours. When He makes a judgment call there is nothing overlooked in any fashion, touching anything, at any time.

@kellyjay said
If an act of terror occurs against innocent children for example, I would choose to hate it, and because of who it was directed at, it wouldn’t take much deliberation on my part.

There could be less stark events where thoughtfulness might be required on our part. That would never be true with God because of who He is. We live and have our being in a sliver of time we call ...[text shortened]... He makes a judgment call there is nothing overlooked in any fashion, touching anything, at any time.

I get all that, he all knowing and so on. That's kinda my point. You or I may feel hate, when we do its likely to be instinctual, a response to something we see or know. We do not sit down have a think about it and then decide that we want to feel hate.
The same cannot be said of God, he is all knowing, all powerful. Nothing has power over him, nothing can make him do anything or feel anything, so he chooses to feel hate, which is weird. Why feel hate when you don't have to.

@stellspalfie said
So he makes a conscious decision to hate?

Only the sinners who he also loves and specifically came to earth to die for.

#jellykay_world