Genesis 1:1 , John 1:1

Jesus Christ and Jehovah are one. During creation of the heaven and the earth Jesus was there. He was there yesterday, He is there today and He will be there tomorrow. He is always with us. Let us be mindful of those facts which can be proved beyond reasonable doubt.

Genesis 1:26, further indicates that God was not ONE "26 Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals,[a] and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”

Originally posted by Tshotsho Khalapa
Let us be mindful of those facts which can be proved beyond reasonable doubt.

And let us also be mindful of what are just assertions by an anonymous poster on the internet.

Let us also be mindful of the difference between beliefs and 'facts that can be proved beyond reasonable doubt'.

Originally posted by twhitehead
And let us also be mindful of what are just assertions by an anonymous poster on the internet.

Let us also be mindful of the difference between beliefs and 'facts that can be proved beyond reasonable doubt'.

I do not know if you are a believer or not. I would like your responces to be supported by Bible verses. I wish to know more on the "anonymous" that you referred to. Thank you and may God bless you.

Originally posted by Tshotsho Khalapa
I do not know if you are a believer or not.

I am not a 'believer'. My point is that if you claim something can be 'proved beyond reasonable doubt' and then later say that it is conditional on someone believing the same things you do, then you are not being very logical.

I wish to know more on the "anonymous" that you referred to.
You are anonymous. I do not know you from Adam. You can't even use the 'argument from authority' when you have no authority, so asserting something is true has no particular value when you are an anonymous poster on the internet.

I would like your responces to be supported by Bible verses.
Why? Why do you assume that everyone else agrees with you that Bible verses are the only source of information? Do you ask your doctor to quote Bible verses before prescribing you medicine?

Originally posted by twhitehead
Do you ask your doctor to quote Bible verses before prescribing you medicine?

And to think I have accused you of not having a sense of humour.😵

Originally posted by Tshotsho Khalapa
Jesus Christ and Jehovah are one.

Welcome to the forum; it can be quite combative in here at times. Enjoy.

This one phrase alone (from your post), will keep you occupied for a few weeks if you get the right posters engaged.

Originally posted by Tshotsho Khalapa
Jesus Christ and Jehovah are one. During creation of the heaven and the earth Jesus was there. He was there yesterday, He is there today and He will be there tomorrow. He is always with us. Let us be mindful of those facts which can be proved beyond reasonable doubt.

Welcome to the forum. We've been playing chess too. Good games.

Keep in mind that one of the quickest ways to gather a room full of atheists is to start a Bible Study. There are lots of atheists in this room, you know ? You just met one - twhitehead.

I certainly have learned to respect the words of the Bible. They do not have to prove something beyond a shadow of doubt, as some suggest. It is valuable that they evidence that I am on the right track to believe them. A lot of things are not proved "beyond any shadow of doubt." We can usually find something to cause us to doubt.

Maybe some mathematical formulas are proofs without a shadow of doubt . . . maybe.

An argument from authority is not necessarily a wrong argument. It is just not a logically rigorous one according to some textbooks on logical arguments. As for authority, we eventually have to trust someone's authority.

Atheists too eventually will put their trust in someone's authority.

The verse you alluded to was Hebrews 12:8 is wonderful.

"Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today, yes, even forever."

My belief about that passage is that "yesterday" goes back to the day of His resurrection.

My God is the man Jesus for certain. And I surely believe that God was incarnated as the man Jesus Christ. He is God eternal and uncreated Who became a man.

"Yesterday, today ... and forever" I teach means yesterday going back to the day Christ was resurrected and became the Firstborn Son of God.

In Genesis before His incarnation, death and resurrection He had only divinity and not humanity. From incarnation He put on humanity. And from resurrection He brought that humanity into glorification forever.

So I teach that Hebrews 12:8 speaks of Christ being the same from the day of His resurrection, and today, and on and on into eternity - the glorified and uplifted man as Lord of all.

Does this make sense to you ?

1.)

And let us also be mindful of what are just assertions by an anonymous poster on the internet.

2.)

Let us also be mindful of the difference between beliefs and 'facts that can be proved beyond reasonable doubt'.

Isn't this two assertions from an anonymous poster ?

Originally posted by divegeester
And to think I have accused you of not having a sense of humour.😵

You may find it funny, but it was in all seriousness. I understand that people have religions and doctrine and such, but when they get to the point that they believe nothing can be factual unless it is backed up by verses from their religions scripture then they are badly in need of a reality check.

Originally posted by sonship
Isn't this two assertions from an anonymous poster ?

No, not really. Unless you call stating the obvious an 'assertion'.

You are also free to dispute any part of them if you'd like. But I suspect you actually agree with them but desperately wanted to find something negative to say about my posts.

I did parody him to some extent.

Originally posted by sonship

...Atheists too eventually will put their trust in someone's authority...

Apologies for replying to just one part of your post.

It's true that an atheist (myself included) put our trust in the authority of others. I think this is very different however from a theist putting their trust in the authority of the bible. An atheist doesn't have all his eggs in one unyielding and rigid basket and is at liberty to seek alternative authority if so required.

No, not really. Unless you call stating the obvious an 'assertion'.

Obvious can be in the eye of the beholder.
That Jesus demonstrated God become a man is obvious to some of us for a couple thousand years now.

We're stating the obvious, in some regards.

You are also free to dispute any part of them if you'd like. But I suspect you actually agree with them but desperately wanted to find something negative to say about my posts.

Just applying your own examination of theists to yourself.
I find it interesting that some atheists apply lots of rules to everyone else except themselves.

An atheist doesn't have all his eggs in one unyielding and rigid basket and is at liberty to seek alternative authority if so required.

I don't have all my eggs in only one basket. I do have some important eggs in a basket.

And I like to quote the Bible, as I have explained before here.
I use to argue with a couple of fellow college mates about God a lot.
For some reason I do not remember hardly any of the content of those arguments.

But I remember vividly this snatch of a moment when something seemed to happen.

" jaywill, I don't know how many times I have to tell you. In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God. Jesus is the living Word of God."

That moment kind of haunts me. I think I may trace it to the second something of God's word shined through my darkness like radiation - unstoppable and living.

I can't remember any of that young man's arguments. I can't remember any of my arguments either very much. I just remember what I didn't realize at that time was John 1:1 with the additional word - "Jesus Christ is the living Word of God."


I have a expectation that some people will come to know the truth in the same way I did. Soooo, I quote the word of God a lot. Now I do argue too. But my guess is that if some get to know God, it will not be because of those arguments.

It will be because of His word. Chances are if you meet the Lord Jesus, you won't recall many of these exchanges of argumentation and reasoning and debate. Perhaps, like me, some will just remember when they seemed to hear the Holy Spirit breathing on the Word of God - making it come alive in their hearts.

Faith comes by hearing. And hearing through the word of Christ.

Originally posted by sonship
Obvious can be in the eye of the beholder.

I agree with reservations. If you state something in the presence of others who fully agree with you, then you are stating the obvious. If you state something in the presence of someone who totally disagrees, you are not stating the obvious but making an assertion.

Just applying your own examination of theists to yourself.
I find it interesting that some atheists apply lots of rules to everyone else except themselves.
Feel free to apply any of my rules to me. You will find that I am more than willing to have them tested. The poster in the OP? Not so willing.
You? Not so willing.