Do you know Islam?

Originally posted by ahosyney
Hi

What you are talking about is the main different between Islam and Christianity. We belive as the old statement do that there is only on GOD. And he has no sons. He is one and not many. And he is the only one who deserv the worship. This belive totaly agrees with the old statement and the new statement too.

The salvation in islam is not the same a ...[text shortened]... lk about the three in one belive in Christianity I can talk with you a little but not that much.

With me the word Christianity is not a positive word. I usually refer to the Christian faith rather than Christianity.

The world Christianity as an "anity" includes many things that have nothing to do with the gospel of Christ. So I will not defend the "anity" but I will speak of the faith of the New Testament and of Jesus the Person.

The reason that the thought of sons of God is appalling to Moslems is that they do not realize how great God's salvation is.

They would emphasize the great distance between man and God. And there is this great distance. But they do not also apprectiate the greater salvation to close the great distance.

So sinners can become sons of God. It is not a service to God to say that there is only this great chasm between the sinner and God. The great chasm between the sinner and God has been traversed by a greater salvation which brings sinners against God to be sons of God.

Islam does not realize how great the salvation of Christ is. They only know how great is the difference between the sinner and the holiness of God. This is an underappreciation of the nature of the Son of God and the extensive allinclusive scope of His great salvation.

We are saved to be sons of God. We are saved in fact to be the expansion of God into millions of human beings. God is enlarged and God is infused into His people. His people become the corporate expresion the mingling and organic union of divnity and humanity.

God retains the unique Godhead of this entity. But in Christ's salvation the sinners become sons of God. That is God living in men and women. In a real sense they become God in life in nature but not in His unique Godhead.

We become partakers of the divine nature in Christ's salvation and He becomes our very life.

The New Testament "worship" of God is really to live God and let God live in and out from the people into whom God in Christ has been imparted.

Originally posted by ahosyney
As a muslim I belive that if I belive in GOD as the only GOD
if I belive that he is the only one that deserve worship
I belive in all his messangers and all his angles.

If I belive in his word (The Quran and the True Bible)

If do prayer, do fasting and charity .
If I do pilgrimage

If I do no wrong , or If I do wrong but I ask forgivness

That all gurntee me the heaven

It is simple , what do you think

The problem that I have is that there are a lot of conflicting ideas in the Bible and the Quaran.

They cannot both be true and both be the revelation of God to mankind.

For example, the Quaran says that Jesus never died. The Bible on the other hand says that Jesus died for the sins of the world and he rose again.

Why is it that you have Roman, Greek and Jewish historians who all say that Jesus died?

The Bible says that Jesus is the only way to God.

Does the Quaran teach anything about asking for forgiveness?

Originally posted by jaywill
With me the word Christianity is not a positive word. I usually refer to the Christian faith rather than Christianity.

The world Christianity as an "anity" includes many things that have nothing to do with the gospel of Christ. So I will not defend the "anity" but I will speak of the faith of the New Testament and of Jesus the Person.

The reason that ...[text shortened]... and let God live in and out from the people into whom God in Christ has been imparted.

Ok

1) You said that there is a distance between man and GOD in islam and that is not true. Islam say if you pray to your GOD he will be closer to you from you heart. So the muslim doesn't anything to shorten the GAB because it is already short.

2) You talked about the chritian faith of GOS's son and silvation. And now I ask where did you get this faith from you Bible. Where did you got the silvation faith , and where in the Bible did Juses say that he is GOD.

3) In islam we belive that Juses is a Man, and he come to say that there is only one GOD and the only way to get sirvation is to worship your GOD and ask forgivness from him.

So you said the only thing that make you don't accept islam is the christiam faith. But if we assume that this faith is not true will you accept it

Originally posted by ahosyney
Ok

the Quran say that you have to spread the message of GOD to all the people in the world.


The quran say show the others the way in a good method.

The quran say if you tell someone the GOD message and he agree with you , you don't have any hand on him and you cann't heart him.

The quran say there is not obligation in religion.

The quran sa ...[text shortened]... e Quran say if they fight you then fight

And that is the Jihad

That is what Quran say ,

The Quaran is still written by one man, who claims to be the true prophet of God, yet his book is full of contradictions, and he never does a single miracle to prove that he was sent of God.

The Quaran still does teach that if you murder the infidel you are doing Mohammad a favour.

Originally posted by dj2becker
The problem that I have is that there are a lot of conflicting ideas in the Bible and the Quaran.

For example, the Quaran says that Jesus never died. The Bible on the other hand says that Jesus died for the sins of the world and he rose again.

Why is it that you have Roman, Greek and Jewish historians who all say that Jesus died?

The Bible says ...[text shortened]... at Jesus is the only way to God.

Does the Quaran teach anything about asking for forgiveness?

Ok

1. There are no confilicting. The bible say the that juses students say thought that he died and comeback from life.

The Quran relive the mistry and say that who was crossed is another Person.

2. There is no place in the Bible where Juses say that he is GOD, or he came for sirvation. Actually he didn't talk about sirvation and he came to sirvive people.

3. In Islam as I said before you asking forgiveness is simple and you don't need any mean to get forgiveness, you only need to ask forgiveness from GOD and be true about it. And if you pray to your GOD he will be closer to you than your heart.

That is what Quran say..

And if you read the Bible you will find the Juses said about himself in many places what Quran say about him, that he is a man and he is a messanger of GOD come with a message to Jewish people.

Originally posted by dj2becker
The Quaran is still written by one man, who claims to be the true prophet of God, yet his book is full of contradictions, and he never does a single miracle to prove that he was sent of God.

The Quaran still does teach that if you murder the infidel you are doing Mohammad a favour.

As I said before and I will say again. The Quran is the word of GOD inspired to Prophet Mohammed by Gibriel the angle.

And I talked about the prophet mircles before, if you want an example of mircles I can give one, and when I talk about a mircle I garuntee that it happened because I know who tell the story from the day it happned to today.

The people of Meca didn't belive in him as you do so they asked for mircle as you do , the prophet show them the moon divided into two halfs and all the people in meca and places arround saw it. This story was told from different places that it couldn't be an illusion. This mircle is mentioned in Quran.

that is an example and there are may more, and as I said before the most important mircle is the Quran it self.


For the second point as I said Jihad is only allowed when enemies attack muslims other wise it is prohibited. It is all written in Quran and I can give the places if you want.

The media want all people to belive that muslims are murderers and terrorists and that what happen. But if you see the true spirit of Islam it is totally different.

Originally posted by ahosyney
That is the two points that every one want to attack Islam do:

1) Jihad: If you read the Quran you will find the following:
Ok

the Quran say that you have to spread the message of GOD to all the people in the world.


The quran say show the others the way in a good method.

The quran say if you tell someone the GOD message and he agree with y ...[text shortened]... have a bad idea about islam , and I try to give another idea. I hope I can success to do it .

Yes, that's my point. The quran says a lot of things without a clear definition on the words used. When you say 'attack', what exactly does that word mean? If, for example, Salman Rusdie (not sure spelling is correct) writes and criticises Islam, that can be construed as a personal comment, period. That could be interpreted at an insult. That could be interpreted as blasphemy. That could be interpreted at an 'attack' on Islam. Which is it? Well, it depends on how you want to punish him. If I want him dead, then the answer is that his book is an 'attack' on Islam, so it is just that he should die!

If I want many wives, then I can do it in style. I can do it and actually become a hero doing it. I can say that I marry more than one because these women have lost their husbands in the war. They need support... financially and sexually....

Originally posted by ckoh1965
Yes, that's my point. The quran says a lot of things without a clear definition on the words used. When you say 'attack', what exactly does that word mean? If, for example, Salman Rusdie (not sure spelling is correct) writes and criticises Islam, that can be construed as a personal comment, period. That could be interpreted at an insult. That could be inter en have lost their husbands in the war. They need support... financially and sexually....

Ok

Jihad and this story is one small point of Islam, so you reject the whole islam for this point. Lets assume that there is no Jihad will you accept it. I don't think so.

Islam is a complete system it states the rules for your life. This include every thing. If you are part of that system your point of view will be different.

Take an example of the US system. They find an execuse to defend themselves and they invaded two countries and many people died because the thought that was right. But many people see that the same way you look at islam. Actually US is doing the more than that.

See it is just a point of view no more. But did you really take a good look at islamic system to see what it really say. You repeat what is said in media and what shown to you , but did you really try to see why all the world try to attack this religon.

I'm not defending Islam because it doen't need me to defend it, what I'm trying to do is to help otheres to find the true way and may be that will be thier silvation if they seek is.

Originally posted by ahosyney
Ok

1) You said that there is a distance between man and GOD in islam and that is not true. Islam say if you pray to your GOD he will be closer to you from you heart. So the muslim doesn't anything to shorten the GAB because it is already short.

2) You talked about the chritian faith of GOS's son and silvation. And now I ask where did you get this fai islam is the christiam faith. But if we assume that this faith is not true will you accept it

There is a basic misunderstanding on some people's part when we say that the Son of God, Jesus Christ is God.

The Moslem is usually quick to respond that they believe that Jesus was a Man. Well, by saying that Jesus Christ is God we do not mean that He is not a man.

Christ is the mingling of God and man. To mingle means to bring two or more things together so that they remain distinquishable in the combination. In Christ God and man are brought together into a mingling. We discern God there. And we also discern a Man there.

I have found the more that I say the my Christ is my God the more the Moslem will argue that He is a man. Well conversely my Man is Jesus also.

My God is the Man Jesus Christ. And my Man is the God Christ. In Jesus Christ the divine and the human are in a perfect organic union of blending and of mingling.

The other matter. I find that the Moslem's attitude about the New Testament is that the teaching of Jesus was polluted by the apostles and disciples who wrote the New Testament. So when they demand to know where Jesus teaches that He was God incarnate they mean that the apostles teaching is not the teaching of the one who chose and sent the apostles.

I can show you BOTH where Jesus teaches that He is God come in the flesh and where correspondingly His apostles teach the same thing.

You are likely to twist those portions where it is taught by Jesus directly. And you are likely to regard as flawed those portions where the evangelists and apostles teach the same thing.

Those Old Testament passages which speak of God coming as a man you likewise have probably learned to twist.

But we can talk about Christ as God or Christ as a Man. And what a Man He is. Of the four gospels Luke emphasiss that Christ was a proper man.

So by saying that Christ is God I do not mean that Christ was not and is not also a man.

Do you understand this what I am saying to you? My past experience with Moslems is that they cannot grasp that we believe that Jesus Christ is the complete God as well as the perfect man.

Originally posted by ahosyney
Ok

Jihad and this story is one small point of Islam, so you reject the whole islam for this point. Lets assume that there is no Jihad will you accept it. I don't think so.

Islam is a complete system it states the rules for your life. This include every thing. If you are part of that system your point of view will be different.

Take an example of t ...[text shortened]... o help otheres to find the true way and may be that will be thier silvation if they seek is.

Yes, fully agreed. I don't know what makes USA think they have the right to dictate what is good for another country. The USA is convinced that for many years the people of Iraq has been ruled by a dictator in Saddam Hussien. So they took it upon themselves that they had the authority to play the world policeman and forced Saddam out of the picture. Why? What for? Because they said they wanted to fight for the people of Iraq. The Iraqis should have freedom!

OK, fine. Now that Saddam is out of the picture, and they are free to find their own course of life, are they able to practise life in the so-called Islamic happy, complete way? NO!... there are more killings. Many more people die each day. Everyone wants to be the king! And the USA thinks it is doing the Iraqis a favour. If the muslims rule the world, then we will be at war all the time!

Originally posted by ckoh1965
Yes, fully agreed. I don't know what makes USA think they have the right to dictate what is good for another country. The USA is convinced that for many years the people of Iraq has been ruled by a dictator in Saddam Hussien. So they took it upon themselves that they had the authority to play the world policeman and forced Saddam out of the picture. Why? Wh ...[text shortened]... doing the Iraqis a favour. If the muslims rule the world, then we will be at war all the time!

Who was to be blamed for this situation. USA , IRAQ People, ISLAM, ISLAM People. Who do you think is the reason for all of that. The islamic system or the Christian Amirican System. The system in Iraq was not islamic and actually there is no country no using the islamic system as it should be so they are suffering.

You claim that the islamic system is the source of all the wars in the worlds but in fact the two previous world wars and the current wars in all parts of the world are established by christian systems or non islamic.

People claim that islamic terrorist and its danger and ignore other sources of terrorism as if it is only islam and islam is the reason.

That is not my point and that is not what I'm here for. I'm here to tell you to try to think about islam from another point of view and study it. And then you are free to think what ever you do.

Chess is haraam. Why are you here?

http://www.inter-islam.org/Prohibitions/Chess.html

Originally posted by ahosyney
What I don't agree with you in is to compare insulting Bush with Insulting GOD or the Prophet. Do you think it is the same. Bush is a person and after few years he will have no weight in the world (Except of course his two great wars in Iraq and Afghanestan). But insulting GOD is not comparible.

That is because you are looking at it from your point of view only. Many americans take thier patriotism so seriously that an insult to Bush or to america, comming from a foreigner is seen as a major thing. From thier point of view insulting 'the Prophet' is not serious at all.
I only gave Bush as an example but insults of both Jesus and the Pope by muslims are commonplace and would be equivalent from a Roman Catholics point of view.
You also assume that all people believe in the existence of God. As far as I am concerned insulting a hypothetical entity is surely less serious than insulting the most powerfull (politically) person on the planet? (Bush)
I also dont see why it would concern muslims if a non muslim insults thier prophet or God as it is Gods job (not yours) to deal with such transgresions(if he exists).

Originally posted by David C
Chess is haraam. Why are you here?

http://www.inter-islam.org/Prohibitions/Chess.html

Thank you for this link

But as you can read it is not totaly Haraam, and I still can play it.


But this doesn't change anything from what I said before. Even if I'm bad that doesn't mean that Islam is bad. Islam is not me. And I got benifit from Islam.

What you do now is simpley the problem of todays view of Islam, if some muslims are Bas ,that doesn't mean Islam is Bad.

Thank you again

Originally posted by David C
Chess is haraam. Why are you here?

http://www.inter-islam.org/Prohibitions/Chess.html

Fortunately, not every Muslim is an idiot:

http://www.askasia.org/teachers/essays/essay.php?no=82