05 Apr '10 08:25>1 edit
Originally posted by josephwSure, by Gods standards. Thats the only standard I follow.
Not by God's standard.
Originally posted by KellyJayIn another thread you mentioned that babies DONT get to choose their parents.
When you can bring a baby forward who believes they are either good or
bad we can talk about it. Until then I believe the conversation is about
those of us who think about such things.
Kelly
Originally posted by pawnhandlerMy personal standard, as a Christian, is Christ. Falling short of that standard as I do through my own efforts is humbling. Everyone naturally assumes that good intentions and good deeds make a person good to at least a certain degree, but the Holy Spirit quickly does away with that misconception. It is deeply painful to discover how hopelessly and helplessly depraved we are despite our best efforts. Only the Holy Spirit can convey such an experience, which inspires a keen sense of mourning at the loss of dearly held beliefs about oneself, and for oneself seen in the light as a crippled, wretched, and sad figure, totally dependent on God's mercy. It is that humbling experience which marks an encounter with the Spirit of God. Far from sending one into a fit of depression or into a downward spiral of despair and self-hatred, such knowledge actually engenders the most realistic sense of self possible. What remains is humility and faith, and the sure knowledge that nothing is a greater blessing than humility and faith. It is through our very failures that Christ teaches the secret to walking with God.
I ask this in this forum because I think people's self-beliefs can stem from their religion. For example, when I went to a Baptist church in Texas, the pastor declared that we were all bad and going to the smoking section of eternity. So I stopped going to that church.
I also heard a nun once declare that if you leave church feeling good about you nd if that belief is because of or in spite of a religion or religious/spiritual experience.
Originally posted by epiphinehasIndeed ,epi. Well put.
My personal standard, as a Christian, is Christ. Falling short of that standard as I do through my own efforts is humbling. Everyone naturally assumes that good intentions and good deeds make a person good to at least a certain degree, but the Holy Spirit quickly does away with that misconception. It is deeply painful to discover how hopelessly and he ...[text shortened]... and faith. It is through our very failures that Christ teaches the secret to walking with God.
Originally posted by LemonJelloFor God to give us free will and not tell us how best to live our lives would be neglagent. So how does he do that? He told Adam and Eve how to live their lives, and the rejected what God told them. The same applies to us via our "inner voice". In fact, without being told how to live our lives, we have no reason to be held accountable for our "sins". Of course, what makes something a sin is simply going against the morality of our Creator. And what is that morality? That morality is grounded solidly in love. Love demands free will and wishes that we do unto others as we would want done to us. So that is the standard that we are held up with and it is up to us to agree to it. Simply put, it is the law of the land that reigns supreme. It is comparible to the man-made laws that govern us, only, we often have no internal voice warning us of when we are breaking them. For example, the tax code is so complicated that apparantly the head of the IRS was unable to comply. Is it fair to hold him to such an unreasonable standard? I say that arguably it is not, that is assuming he was telling the truth by saying he was trying to comply. You could also argue that we should not be held to any standards, but then what happens to the order of Creation? If all standards are thrown over board, chaos rears its ugly head.
I don't see how your view makes much sense. Within your free will theodicy, you have always wanted to say that God's plans of love required His granting us freedom -- as in, personal autonomy over our choices and actions. By any reasonable interpretation, God's granting us freedom in this sense should include his creating us to be genuine sources of our ed for good choices; then why think your free will holds any weight at all anyway?
Originally posted by whodeyYes I do.
Do you want a pat on the back if you abide by the law?
Originally posted by LemonJelloOkay, as you point out it isn't that they are good, only that they believe
[b]Sort of depends on what the standard is for good is don't you think?
Not really. The question that prompted the thread was "Do most people believe they're good?" Of course, two different persons can both believe they themselves are good and yet hold very different conceptions of what it means to be good. So, his question really doesn't depend ood that is mutually embraced. Or maybe I am not understanding your points in this post?[/b]
Originally posted by twhiteheadLet me put in another way. Suppose you were on trial for murder and during the trial you tell the jury that you have been "good" your whole life except for this one time. In fact, you bring in character witnesses testifying to you good works throughout your life. The judge will then look at you and say but that is not why you are here. You are here to be tried for murder. Do you seriously think that all those good works will be enough to evade punishment? Should it? Should then judge then sing your praises for all those previous good works?
Yes I do.
[b]It is sad that we insist on being credited for things we should not be told to do and, at the same time, puzzled when we are punished for doing things we know we should not be doing.
It seems you are saying that We should not get any credit for doing anything right as doing the right thing is the default. We should only be criticized ...[text shortened]... t or not, are you still good, when you do the right thing? Are you better than those who don't?[/b]
Originally posted by KellyJayMy belief is that "souls" choose their parents as in hindu scripture.
Well, in this life they don't if you think there is something that suggests
they do bring it forward.
Kelly
Originally posted by karoly aczelOkay
My belief is that "souls" choose their parents as in hindu scripture.
The reason we cant explain our current predicament accurately,(including things like how we chose our parents,and who we are origonally,etc.), and only partially, is because of "amnesia" that we have suffered due to the current(spiritual) climate on this planet. We have been cut off ...[text shortened]... ed the physical apparatus(the brain), to reconnect with the origonal matrix of its creation.
Originally posted by karoly aczelBut how come the Christians on this site always come off sounding sad and gloomy with such subjects?
Indeed ,epi. Well put.
But how come the Christians on this site always come off sounding sad and gloomy with such subjects?
Is there not a more positive way you could put the same sentiments?
After all, us humans, who fall short of Christ-Concuisness, need all the encouragement that we can get, no?
Originally posted by duecerRec'd. Dead on.
I'm VERY good...God says so.
Gen1: 27 So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him;
male and female he created them.
28 God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature ...[text shortened]... made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day.[/b]