26 May '10 21:59>
I'm a bit puzzled by your position FreakyKBH. Although you think it is true that god god freely offers us a gift which we can accept or reject, presumably you also realise that LemonJello doesn't think that this is the case?
Originally posted by LemonJelloYou've given me much to ponder on. I will do just that and respond tomorrow. Thanks for your patience in this and in all of that.
[b]Name names. Not including someone without self-consciousness, name one person who would consider themselves an atheist while at the same time not in possession of a god-related concept.
That would be rather irrelevant to the discussion at hand. I didn't claim that there are persons who consider themselves atheist while at the same time holding ...[text shortened]... tial considerations that actually bear on the truth/falsity of theism.[/b]
Originally posted by Lord SharkI'll get back with you after I digest LJ's mini-feast.
I'm a bit puzzled by your position FreakyKBH. Although you think it is true that god god freely offers us a gift which we can accept or reject, presumably you also realise that LemonJello doesn't think that this is the case?
Originally posted by LemonJelloNow you should be able to see that my claim has nothing to do with anyone's considering himself to be anything.
Name names. Not including someone without self-consciousness, name one person who would consider themselves an atheist while at the same time not in possession of a god-related concept.
That would be rather irrelevant to the discussion at hand. I didn't claim that there are persons who consider themselves atheist while at the same time holding no ...[text shortened]... tial considerations that actually bear on the truth/falsity of theism.[/b]
Originally posted by FreakyKBHEdit:
[b]Now you should be able to see that my claim has nothing to do with anyone's considering himself to be anything.
I would consider such a person wholly relevant, as their existence in such a state is the issue. A hypothetical seems rather redundant if it contains no practical application.
If you had some person who held no god related concepts ...[text shortened]...
Again, I thank you for your good humor in considering these various awkward posts.
Originally posted by FreakyKBHAgain, I can think of no one like this, whatsoever. Imagining them is quite different than their actual existence. Without their existence, we have created an arbitrary standard with no moorings, using the same to measure what we know to be true, i.e., man has an idea called god.
Now you should be able to see that my claim has nothing to do with anyone's considering himself to be anything.
I would consider such a person wholly relevant, as their existence in such a state is the issue. A hypothetical seems rather redundant if it contains no practical application.
If you had some person who held no god related concepts
Again, I thank you for your good humor in considering these various awkward posts.
Originally posted by black beetleFor one, you cannot because regarding this matter, at this level of awareness, you are a product of an ill-considered product of yours.
Edit:
“Here's the problem: I can't.
For one, you are smarter than me.
Two, even though I believe there is more than sufficient evidential support for belief, forums such as these (read: moving graffiti) do not lend themselves to serious consideration. Their tabloid nature allows any post to be missed as much as ignored.
Three, despite claiming su ...[text shortened]... ely in your own mind as a product of your Desire.
etc etc
May All Beings Be Happy
π΅
Originally posted by FreakyKBHMethinks a long-life endeavor does not guarantee that one will find a fully productive shifting of the point of his/ her attention; e4 could well be the best move -in your opinion and regarding specific persons under specific circumstances, that is. You cannot prove that e4 is the best move for all regardless of the circumstances simply because according to a specific evaluation of yours is the “best move”. And of course you recognize on the spot that this thought of yours is as empty as my answer.
[b]For one, you cannot because regarding this matter, at this level of awareness, you are a product of an ill-considered product of yours.
Actually, I was thinking more along the lines of 'I can't convince--- truly convince--- anyone of anything, since each man is convinced by the weight of their own convictions, individually considered. Along spirit ...[text shortened]... acts and evidence. [/b]
I should have qualified it by calling it saving faith.[/b]