Relativistic Doppler Effect

Originally posted by @joe-shmo
"How did the (V/C)^2 function disappear?"

It didn't disappear, its just some algebraic manipulation

We have a factor ( 1 - v/c) in the numerator, and √( 1-(v/c)^2 ) in the denominator. we bring the numerator under the root by squaring it.

( 1 - v/c)*1/√( 1-(v/c)^2 ) = √( (1-v/c)²/( 1-(v/c)² ) ) = √( (1-v/c)*(1-v/c)/( 1-(v/c)² ) )

Then apply ...[text shortened]... r receding.

"Does the equation work if v is zero?"

Plug in v = 0 and tell me what you get?

thanks for that. v=0 goes 1/1 so 1 doppler shift, presumably zero doppler, wavelength same.

Originally posted by @sonhouse
thanks for that. v=0 goes 1/1 so 1 doppler shift, presumably zero doppler, wavelength same.

Yep, no shift for relative velocity of zero.

Originally posted by @joe-shmo
Well, I'm sorry to hear that. However, I do not believe you are sincere in your attempts to understand. How do you expect to understand the warping of space-time without any road map? ( i.e. equations of special relativity ) These are not phenomenon in which we have any standard sense of in our non-relativistic perspectives. For instance while I was tr ...[text shortened]... ophisticated the math ( the language through which it is understood) required is to describe it.

I am trying to understand, but I was hoping for a concise explanation without delving into the math too much. Sonhouse tried, but he said "time shifts". I'm not sure what he means by that so I guess it is hard to explain without the math part.
I'm not a physicist, I just read up on it intermittently as a hobby. I probably will not understand anytime soon. I'm not that committed I guess.

Originally posted by @metal-brain
I am trying to understand, but I was hoping for a concise explanation without delving into the math too much. Sonhouse tried, but he said "time shifts". I'm not sure what he means by that so I guess it is hard to explain without the math part.
I'm not a physicist, I just read up on it intermittently as a hobby. I probably will not understand anytime soon. I'm not that committed I guess.

The math is not calculus. You can't even do algebra? X-3=5
X=?

Originally posted by @sonhouse
The math is not calculus. You can't even do algebra? X-3=5
X=?

Irrelevant!

All I asked you to do is explain the time dilation aspect of RDE and that does not require any math to do that.
I have concluded that "time dilation" has nothing to do with RDE and that wikipedia interjected that notion without any good reason. This added confusion is why I think wikipedia is pathetic!

Originally posted by @metal-brain
Irrelevant!

All I asked you to do is explain the time dilation aspect of RDE and that does not require any math to do that.
I have concluded that "time dilation" has nothing to do with RDE and that wikipedia interjected that notion without any good reason. This added confusion is why I think wikipedia is pathetic!

Well, your completely incorrect. Time dilation is tantamount to explaining the wavelength shift. I already explained this to you! You can’t grasp this concept without some underlying notions of how the math behaves. Period. End of discussion. Your absolute arrogance in exclaiming time dilation has nothing to do with something you have no understanding of is astounding!! I’m literally floored. 😵

Originally posted by @joe-shmo
Well, your completely incorrect. Time dilation is tantamount to explaining the wavelength shift. I already explained this to you! You can’t grasp this concept without some underlying notions of how the math behaves. Period. End of discussion. Your absolute arrogance in exclaiming time dilation has nothing to do with something you have no understanding of is astounding!! I’m literally floored. 😵

You never explained the time dilation aspect of it at all.

Are you claiming that no Doppler Effect would take place without time dilation? Yes or no? I never asked for exact wavelength equations. If you can answer my question yes or no that is all I have been asking for. I don't require any further explanation. I think you are getting too nit picky for the benefit of your own ego more than my understanding. You remind me of an algebra teacher I had that liked to belittle his students for not learning fast. Nobody learned anything and it was his own fault, but he never could accept it. He knew 90% of his students didn't get a passing score on the test but gave them a D anyway. Maybe then he realized he failed his students and they didn't fail him. The irony is that none of his students failed because he felt the need to cover it up.

Yes or no?

Originally posted by @metal-brain
You never explained the time dilation aspect of it at all.

Are you claiming that no Doppler Effect would take place without time dilation? Yes or no? I never asked for exact wavelength equations. If you can answer my question yes or no that is all I have been asking for. I don't require any further explanation. I think you are getting too nit picky ...[text shortened]... irony is that none of his students failed because he felt the need to cover it up.

Yes or no?

"Are you claiming that no Doppler Effect would take place without time dilation?"

Yes. As far as I can tell no Doppler Effect involving light would occur without time dilation, because of this simple algebraic fact.

c ( speed of light ) = λ ( wavelength) / Δt ( wave period - length of time between crests)

The speed of light is constant in all frames of reference, so the ratio of wavelength to the time period never changes...it always equals "c". So, if due to special relativity the apparent wave period ( length of time between crests) is extended for an observer, then the apparent wavelength must be extended and visa versa.

Oh and for the record, I wasn't attacking you for not knowing the algebra ( that was sonhouse ) , I was attacking you for dismissing what it contained.

Originally posted by @joe-shmo
"Are you claiming that no Doppler Effect would take place without time dilation?"

Yes. As far as I can tell no Doppler Effect involving light would occur without time dilation, because of this simple algebraic fact.

c ( speed of light ) = λ ( wavelength) / Δt ( wave period - length of time between crests)

The speed of light is constant in all fra ...[text shortened]... nowing the algebra ( that was sonhouse ) , I was attacking you for dismissing what it contained.

" Δt ( wave period - length of time between crests"

That is what I suspected all along, but it was taking too long to get there. The algebra alone was not enough to help me. I have never taken a physics class in my life so I don't know what the symbols mean like the one you posted above. You didn't offer an explanation like I was hoping for until now. It was very frustrating for me, especially since you claimed I was not trying to learn.

Sometimes I learn faster when I purposely make false statements. It would have taken weeks to get from you what I did in days by doing that. I don't get online very often. I was expecting humy to call me a moron again as a downfall. Instead I got attacked from you and I didn't expect that, but at least I got the answer I was looking for. Others who posted on here had no interest in helping me learn. I suspect they were mostly copy and pasting things they didn't understand well themselves.

Despite your lack of concision, thanks.

Originally posted by @metal-brain
That is what I suspected all along, but it was taking too long to get there.

Sometimes I learn faster when I purposely make false statements. It would have taken weeks to get from you what I did in days by doing that. I don't get online very often. I was expecting humy to call me a moron again as a downfall. Instead I got it from you and I did ...[text shortened]... sting things they didn't understand well themselves.

Despite your lack of concision, thanks.

"Instead I got it from you and I didn't expect that, but at least I got the answer I was looking for"

I never called you a moron.

"Despite your lack of concision, thanks."

Bit of a jab there don't you think? Its a difficult subject that uses precise language...one that I myself am not very good at speaking, while trying to explain to someone without the any training in the field. But thanks...I guess!

Originally posted by @joe-shmo
"Instead I got it from you and I didn't expect that, but at least I got the answer I was looking for"

I never called you a moron.

"Despite your lack of concision, thanks."

Bit of a jab there don't you think? Its a difficult subject that uses precise language...one that I myself am not very good at speaking, while trying to explain to someone without the any training in the field. But thanks...I guess!

For the record I never said you called me a moron, just that you attacked me. Humy calling me a moron is also an attack, just a more insulting one. He does that when he gets frustrated debating me.

"Bit of a jab there don't you think?"

You started out posting nothing but algebra equations. If that was all that I needed do you really think I would have the need to create this thread? As you pointed out before, all of that was in the wikipedia link.

I guess you assumed my educational level was higher than it is. I'll take that as a compliment. The reality is I dropped out of high school at age 15 because I missed too many days of school from working hard on the farm and missing the school bus in the morning. Because the school does not receive money from the state when too many absences build up they told me I could not attend those classes anymore unless I appealed. My mother used to be a school teacher when she was younger and spoke to the principal about it. She came home and told me he was a jerk and understood why I hated school policy. It was all about money, not about teaching those who were willing to learn.
Despite that I have learned on my own. It would have been better if money was not more important than educating teenagers, but that is how the system works.

Originally posted by @metal-brain
For the record I never said you called me a moron, just that you attacked me. Humy calling me a moron is also an attack, just a more insulting one. He does that when he gets frustrated debating me.

"Bit of a jab there don't you think?"

You started out posting nothing but algebra equations. If that was all that I needed do you really think I would ...[text shortened]... tter if money was not more important than educating teenagers, but that is how the system works.

Your early story sucks, but it happens more often than we think. Kudo's for maintaining an interest in science!

You can still attend say, night school at local community college if you have time, they are not near as expensive as full university.

Myself, I dropped out of HS 6 weeks before graduation because of really bad living conditions in the house I was living in. Had I been living at home and going to Glendora HS I would have graduated with near straight A's.

But I got GED and went to Palomar College in San Marcos California, a very nice college. For instance, my music teacher was Howard Brubeck, brother of Dave Brubeck, if you ever heard of that Jazz genius. Both RIP now. At Palomar now there is the Howard Brubeck auditorium. UCLA got the bulk of his compositions, some 1500 of them. I had an enormous crush on Howard's daughter, Ginger, tall, lithe, beautiful, we had some classes together. Sigh. I tried googling Ginger Brubeck but for sure she would be a Stein of some sort now, Goldstein, Rubenstein, so had no luck tracking her down to say high. Her cousins, Dave's sons, still have the Dave Brubeck quartet but was never able to even contact them.

Originally posted by @sonhouse
Your early story sucks, but it happens more often than we think. Kudo's for maintaining an interest in science!

You can still attend say, night school at local community college if you have time, they are not near as expensive as full university.

Myself, I dropped out of HS 6 weeks before graduation because of really bad living conditions in the ho ...[text shortened]... usins, Dave's sons, still have the Dave Brubeck quartet but was never able to even contact them.

I have a GED and went to a community college briefly after getting an adult educational scholarship, but it was for a folk guitar class mostly. I have little interest in studying subjects I am not interested in and that is how the stupid educational system is set up if you want a degree in the end. I am almost 50 and have no desire to waste my time learning stuff that does not interest me.