Originally posted by tomtom232 [pgn] [FEN "r2r2k1/1p3pbp/p1b2qp1/4p3/1QPnB1P1/P3B2P/1P1N1P2/1R3RK1 b - - 8 20"] 1...Nc2 2.g5 Qe6 3.Bxc2 {don't know what to do after this yet... but there has to be something}[/pgn]
Originally posted by tomtom232 [pgn] [FEN "r2r2k1/1p3pbp/p1b2qp1/4p3/1QPnB1P1/P3B2P/1P1N1P2/1R3RK1 b - - 8 20"] 1... a5 2.Qb6 Ra6 3.Qc7 Rd7 4.Qc8+ Rd8 5.g5 {your move comes to the rescue}[/pgn]
Hey TomTom, after your analysis it seems clear there are multiple options for black. The main idea for me was the use of the pressure on the Queen to force a good position or lose the Queen. This was the best I could come up with:
FEN
r2r2k1/1p3pbp/p1b2qp1/4p3/1QPnB1P1/P3B2P/1P1N1P2/1R3RK1 b - - 8 20
[FEN "r2r2k1/1p3pbp/p1b2qp1/4p3/1QPnB1P1/P3B2P/1P1N1P2/1R3RK1 b - - 8 20"] 1... a5 2.Qb6 Ra6 3.Qc7 Ne6 {A different way to keep the pressure on the Queen}4.g5 {this move comes to the rescue...} Ng5 {Except this time the Knight is available!}5.Bd5 {White can put pressure on as well} Nh3 {but the kingside is now blown apart}
and then Nf4 in response to Kh2, or Bxd5 if Kh1/Kg2
Originally posted by morgski Hey TomTom, after your analysis it seems clear there are multiple options for black. The main idea for me was the use of the pressure on the Queen to force a good position or lose the Queen. This was the best I could come up with:
[pgn][FEN "r2r2k1/1p3pbp/p1b2qp1/4p3/1QPnB1P1/P3B2P/1P1N1P2/1R3RK1 b - - 8 20"] 1... a5 2.Qb6 Ra6 3.Qc7 Ne6 {A different w ...[text shortened]... the kingside is now blown apart}[/pgn]
and then Nf4 in response to Kh2, or Bxd5 if Kh1/Kg2
[FEN "r2r2k1/1p3pbp/p1b2qp1/4p3/1QPnB1P1/P3B2P/1P1N1P2/1R3RK1 b - - 8 20"] 1... a5 2.Qb6 Ra6 3.Qc7 Ne6 4.g5 Ng5 5.Bxc6 {The alternative} Rxc6 6.Qxb7 {to overload blacks queen} Nxh3 7.Kg2 {the point of taking the bishop... this square is safer than h2} Nf4 8.Bxf4 exf4 {queen can't take because then the rook is hanging} 9.Ne4 {and now the rooks can come over to the kingside and attack and its blacks King who is in danger}
Originally posted by tomtom232 [pgn][FEN "r2r2k1/1p3pbp/p1b2qp1/4p3/1QPnB1P1/P3B2P/1P1N1P2/1R3RK1 b - - 8 20"] 1... a5 2.Qb6 Ra6 3.Qc7 Ne6 4.g5 Ng5 5.Bxc6 {The alternative} Rxc6 6.Qxb7 {to overload blacks queen} Nxh3 7.Kg2 {the point of taking the bishop... this square is safer than h2} Nf4 8.Bxf4 exf4 {queen can't take because then the rook is hanging} 9.Ne4 {and now the rooks can come over to the kingside and attack and its blacks King who is in danger} [/pgn]
No!
f3 seems to wrap things up nicely for black. white is buried
Originally posted by queenabber No!
f3 seems to wrap things up nicely for black. white is buried
...f3 then Kg3 and the queen has to give up the pawn and the king is on a journey to switch to the other side of the board if the need arises otherwise white can still either trade queens or attack blacks king.
Originally posted by tomtom232 ...f3 then Kg3 and the queen has to give up the pawn and the king is on a journey to switch to the other side of the board if the need arises otherwise white can still either trade queens or attack blacks king.
Originally posted by tomtom232 [pgn][FEN "r2r2k1/1p3pbp/p1b2qp1/4p3/1QPnB1P1/P3B2P/1P1N1P2/1R3RK1 b - - 8 20"] 1... a5 2.Qb6 Ra6 3.Qc7 Ne6 4.g5 Ng5 5.Bxc6 {The alternative} Rxc6 6.Qxb7 {to overload blacks queen} Nxh3 7.Kg2 {the point of taking the bishop... this square is safer than h2} Nf4 8.Bxf4 exf4 {queen can't take because then the rook is hanging} 9.Ne4 {and now the rooks can come over to the kingside and attack and its blacks King who is in danger} [/pgn]
FEN
r2r2k1/1p3pbp/p1b2qp1/4p3/1QPnB1P1/P3B2P/1P1N1P2/1R3RK1 b - - 8 20
[FEN "r2r2k1/1p3pbp/p1b2qp1/4p3/1QPnB1P1/P3B2P/1P1N1P2/1R3RK1 b - - 8 20"] 1... a5 2.Qb6 Ra6 3.Qc7 Ne6 4.g5 Ng5 5.Bxc6 {The alternative} Rxc6 6.Qxb7 {to overload blacks queen} Nxh3 7.Kg2 {the point of taking the bishop... this square is safer than h2} Nf4 8.Bxf4 exf4 {queen can't take because then the rook is hanging} 9.Nf3 {now what?}
Originally posted by tomtom232 [pgn][FEN "r2r2k1/1p3pbp/p1b2qp1/4p3/1QPnB1P1/P3B2P/1P1N1P2/1R3RK1 b - - 8 20"] 1... a5 2.Qb6 Ra6 3.Qc7 Ne6 4.g5 Ng5 5.Bxc6 {The alternative} Rxc6 6.Qxb7 {to overload blacks queen} Nxh3 7.Kg2 {the point of taking the bishop... this square is safer than h2} Nf4 8.Bxf4 exf4 {queen can't take because then the rook is hanging} 9.Nf3 {now what?}[/pgn]
Now you're still a pawn up and white's kingside is still shaky. There is no immediate crushing attack, but if you play it calmly you should get there in the end.
Originally posted by dzhafner Originally posted by morgski [b]Nc2 does appear to work, and you've certainly shown there are some good lines in that direction.
I think the key white defense is Ba4
...Nc2
Bxc2 ...Rxd2
Ba4 indirectly protecting the h1-a8 diagonal
if ...Be4
f3 stops that
[fen]r5k1/1p3pbp/p1b2qp1/4p3/BQP3P1/P3B2P/1P1r1P2/R4RK1 b - - 1 27[/fen]
...b5 cxb5 ...Bb7 f3 ...Re2 and white is in serious trouble.