Originally posted by rhbGets a RESOUNDING thumbs up from me!
If the above means I eventually lose a game I could have timed out, then tough on me, it's not like it hurt me or anything. If it prolongs an evenly matched, good game, (especially if I end up winning!) then that is all for the good of the sport as I want to play it.
Notably the people who are in favour of not timing out people who move whislt the vacation flag is on are relatively new to the site and play under 50 concurrent games. Perhaps when you've been playing here longer and have observed the abuse against you on numerous occasions and if you're managing to keep up in over 100 games to avoid time out, you might see things differently.
I used to feel exactly the same re: good sportsmanship and giving people moving with the flag on the benefit of the doubt. But when you know that someone is simply trying to avoid time out through lack of timely game managment on their part it eventually winds you up.
Originally posted by sundown316nope i was just on vacation with internet access luckily it was only 4 days and all of my games had a timebank of 7 and above. True there was internet access but it was a big hotel, one computer, and a lot of people that want to use it. And when your on vacation, would you spend your time waiting for the computer to be free? Only people who are desperate or stupid would do that.
I just timed one of them out. Not because I needed,or wanted,the win,but I consider what they do to be unethical. Either you're on vacation with no access to a computer,or you're not.
Originally posted by ExyExy, I have absolutely no problem with you making a personal decision to ignore vacation flags (helpful if you warn people of this in your profile, of course). No change of the system is necessary for you to do that. But for those of us who are new and naive, the vacation flag is useful.
Notably the people who are in favour of not timing out people who move whislt the vacation flag is on are relatively new to the site and play under 50 concurrent games. Perhaps when you've been playing here longer and have observed the abuse against you on numerous occasions and if you're managing to keep up in over 100 games to avoid time out, you might see ...[text shortened]... o avoid time out through lack of timely game managment on their part it eventually winds you up.
I'm quite sure there WILL come a day when I time out someone who I believe is stalling. But I will take each case on its merits, not make a hard and fast rule to ignore vacation flags.
orfeo,
I would have agreed with you at one time. I try to be a polite and respectful opponent (because that is what I would like back). Then I saw the abuses that take place. Now, I agree with Exy. Some of the people on here openly and blantently abuse the flag in an attempt to keep their rating from going down. I've seen it way too many times. I don't TO everyone automatically. BUT, if they move after their flag is up or they have moved in other games more recently, I'll consider them not really on vacation and TO them.
Here's a great example: I have an opponent that went on vacation 4 July. They haven't moved in our game since. But, they have been moving in their other games about every other day. They only have 12 games going. They are a queen down in our game. Do you think I should take the skull?
I gues Cheshire Cat is a great example of how people doesn't believe VF anymore.
He's a great and fair player and everyone knew he was on vacation,but people timeouted him in a huge amount of games,regardless of his vacation status,his rating went from 1500 to 800.........
Well,I think he was a victim of other people 's abuse of VF,and it's because of those players that no one believes anymore in VF.
CheshireC.is the fastest player of the site and didn't deserved the treatment he received.
Ok. Let's acknowledge that there are people who abuse the vacation flag. Those people suck. Period. My following comments do not apply to them. It has been my experience that those who aren't on vacation but use the vacation flag never use the vacation message, which is a good tipoff.
I can't understand why people get excited if people put up their vacation flag and move. The goal of this site is to play chess. If a person, while on vacation, has the opportunity and inclination to make a move (visiting a relative with internet access, internet cafe, whatever), YOU, the opponent, benefit. S/he makes a move, flops the flag back up, goes back on vacation, and you get to make a move. You get to play chess some more. Does anyone here enjoy a cheap win? I mean really enjoy it? If you do, why not cheat and use a computer. If it's ALL ABOUT RATING, then why care about the other person.
Claiming timeout, while totally acceptable and legitimate, is a far less satisfying way to win. Someone in a tournament recently went on vacation with full timeout and timebank rather early in the game (10 or so moves). I moved, and he was force timed out. I felt bad for him; sure I advanced in the round, but I didn't feel like I had earned the victory.
I have always defended a person's right to timeout an opponent, but in a lot of circumstances it's pretty lame to do so. If a person puts up a flag and says s/he'll be back in two weeks, makes one move because s/he had the opportunity, it's for your mutual benefit of continuing the game. How can you get irritated about this?
Please remember, I am referring to people doing this legitimately (see my opening paragraph).
If you want to take timeouts that way, it's your right and I defend it. But to blame the majority of people who use the flag properly because of a few people who abuse it, that's just too bad for you. Ultimately, you lose out on the joy of struggling to win another chess game, which is what I take the site to be all about.
Nemesio
Originally posted by orfeoI applaud this thinking, rather than the carte blanche application of a rule made out of irritation.
I'm quite sure there WILL come a day when I time out someone who I believe is stalling. But I will take each case on its merits, not make a hard and fast rule to ignore vacation flags.
Nemesio
Originally posted by Saint NickHave you tried sending a message pointing out this fact? When I notice what I suspect to be an abuse, then I fire over a message that they will see whenever they log in.
Here's a great example: I have an opponent that went on vacation 4 July. They haven't moved in our game since. But, they have been moving in their other games about every other day. They only have 12 games going. They are a queen down in our game. Do you think I should take the skull?
If it goes ignored while other games continue to be played, then, agreed, it's an abuse.
Perhaps the moves this opponent made in the other games where so obvious, that they didn't require pondering the board. Perhaps he was getting to your game in the cycle of moves. Perhaps a lot of things that could be cleared up one way or another by a simple RHP message stating "I see that you are on vacation, but you have made moves against other players. Please make a move against me in your next round of moves, or I will time you out." It only takes a second, and maybe it will spare you a little bit of annoyance if he moves or ignores you.
Nemesio
Originally posted by nemesioThat's a good idea and I have done this in the past. I'm currently giving my opponent some more time to get around to our game and to see if they continue to move on vacation.
Have you tried sending a message pointing out this fact? When I notice what I suspect to be an abuse, then I fire over a message that they will see whenever they log in.
If it goes ignored while other games continue to be played, then, agreed, it's an abuse.
Perhaps the moves this opponent made in the other games where so obvious, that they didn't r ...[text shortened]... nd, and maybe it will spare you a little bit of annoyance if he moves or ignores you.
Nemesio
I have absolutely no probelm with someone that uses their VF properly and I will not time them out.
If it is a simple matter of "I'm not going to move in that game becasue I'm losing" then the skull is my friend. 🙂
Originally posted by Saint NickSo what if they do? It is their time and energy going into that, and for what? To preserve a number in a database, that's all. Let them do it I say! It neither hurts me nor costs me anything to move in return.
Some of the people on here openly and blantently abuse the flag in an attempt to keep their rating from going down.
As for other comments made about monitoring opponents other games when their VF flag is up to see if they are moving, personally I have far better things to spend my time doing!
Originally posted by rhbSo, you're happy being a soft touch, more fool you. Good luck in all your games.
So what if they do? It is their time and energy going into that, and for what? To preserve a number in a database, that's all. Let them do it I say! It neither hurts me nor costs me anything to move in return.
As for other comments made about monitoring opponents other games when their VF flag is up to see if they are moving, personally I have far better things to spend my time doing!
Originally posted by Saint NickI just don't see how anyone can "abuse" the flag.
Some of the people on here openly and blantently abuse the flag in an attempt to keep their rating from going down.
Putting the flag up changes nothing. The limits of the game are imposed by the timeouts, not the flag, if someone goes outside of those limits, the flag alone does not prevent you claiming victory, if you so desire.
Any change to the flag making it more powerful would increase abuse (potential) imo, not decrease it.
Surely if the "abuse" is so apparent, it is easy enough to ignore the flag in those instances?
Originally posted by eyeqpcyeah i will be on vacation soon and i don't know if i will be able to find a computer. But for now im trying to get rid of my short games. +(*!*)+
Its exactly the way I treat the vacation flag now, pointless. So I make sure I have no games when a vacation is coming up, excellent time-management is my middle name.