Obama ought not to socialize health care and sell out the American Dreams for the European model of state control.

Originally posted by badmoon
Frankly I don't see where the health insurance companies add much value to our society and I don't see why so many feel that they have a God given right to exist.

Well, McCarthyism is still alive today.

the main value that insurance companies provide is, well, insurance. You agree to pay premiums that cost more than the average expected costs for healthcare, and in return they shield you from the possibility of huge catasrophic costs.

The insurer profits because everyone is paying more per year than they would expect to save because their healthcare is being paid for.

Now all of this makes sense when we're talking about catastrophes. It's the reason why people buy insurance in general for a wide variety of things. But it doesn't make sense when we're talking about routine costs that one can expect to incur every year - or things that one can easily budget for.

Why would you pay someone else more when you could pay for it all yourself for less? But if insurance companies could find a way to trick everyone into using insurance to cover routine things, they'd love it -- it would generate a lot more business, generating lots of additional profits with almost no risks.

Seems that with healthcare, the insurance companies have accomplished this trick by making people believe they're getting all this coverage for "free" - after all, isn't the employer "offering" this wonderful coverage as an "added benefit"? But these benefits are not free. They're coming out your pay check.

Even now, amidst all the current debate, the wool still seems firmly in place over many a pair of eyes.

I like FMF's comment a lot, can't say better.

However , being in the UK with the NHS i must say it does have it's downsides, though I 100% support it.

It doesn't really allow people to be pro active about there health, and your treatment choices are limited. I'd like to be able to pay my GP for a thorough health check every 6 months or so, but the NHS just provides a basic level of care if you fall ill. I see this as the best value part of paying taxes, but I think the UK could have more private services too;

A friend recently fell seriously ill and it has been 3 months now without a proper diagnosis. With more private services this might not happen.
but as for long term treatment and the cost of it, having national scheme is vital to ensure all get a decent standard.

Originally posted by eljefejesus
Obama ought not to socialize health care and sell out the American Dreams for the European model of state control.

Obama ought to cut waste instead, privatize companies that have been taken over, and if a reform in healthcare is to be done, it should be done in cooperation with conservatives of both parties.

when did he propose to socialize healthcare?

I remember him saying he wanted a public option, but I don't remember him saying he wanted to get rid of private healthcare.

but I agree with your last points.

Originally posted by generalissimo
when did he propose to socialize healthcare?

I remember him saying he wanted a public option, but I don't remember him saying he wanted to get rid of private healthcare.

but I agree with your last points.

The theory is that any public option would be so much more attractive that the insurance companies wouldn't be able to compete, and they'd all go out of business -- leaving the public option as the only option.

I think that a public option is a good way to keep the private options "honest" -- but those private options have to be there to keep the public option "honest". Surely there's a way to ensure that both sides can stay in the game.

Originally posted by Melanerpes
The theory is that any public option would be so much more attractive that the insurance companies wouldn't be able to compete, and they'd all go out of business -- leaving the public option as the only option.

I think that a public option is a good way to keep the private options "honest" -- but those private options have to be there to keep the public option "honest". Surely there's a way to ensure that both sides can stay in the game.

There are many systems with both, so yes.

Originally posted by eljefejesus
Obama ought not to socialize health care and sell out the American Dreams for the European model of state control.

I missed the part where spending twice as much as any other rich country on healthcare for worse health outcomes was part of the American Dream.

With dreams like that, who needs nightmares?

Originally posted by murrow
I missed the part where spending twice as much as any other rich country on healthcare for worse health outcomes was part of the American Dream.

With dreams like that, who needs nightmares?

....or to paraphrase that into a favourite healthcare industry saying,

with friends like that, who needs enemas!