Originally posted by quackquack Roethlisberger (who is very good) was absolutely awful in his first Superbowl win. His team won inspite of him.
He simply is not Peyton Manning who has 4 MVPs or Tom Brady who has two Super Bowl MVPs, will win his 2nd MVP. FUrthermore, Brady/ Manning are far more important to their team's success that Roethlisberger (his team did quite well this year when he was suspended).
Roethlisberger ws not awful, just mediocre, but did not screw it up. He was brilliant in his second SB win. IN this latest game he was awful the first half and brilliant the second half. He is a fiery competitoer even when playing poorly! Goodel timed the suspension for when Steelers were going to play patsies. The backup QB's are not bad QB's either. Some day Dixon might get a chance to be a starter.
Originally posted by scacchipazzo Roethlisberger ws not awful, just mediocre, but did not screw it up. He was brilliant in his second SB win. IN this latest game he was awful the first half and brilliant the second half. He is a fiery competitoer even when playing poorly! Goodel timed the suspension for when Steelers were going to play patsies. The backup QB's are not bad QB's either. Some day Dixon might get a chance to be a starter.
Big Ben is an entirely different type of QB and he should not be considered part of the "Brady/Manning" level. Brady/Manning are strictly pocket passers that can easily be rattled.
Big Ben plays more like Elway (who I think is better than Brady and Manning), who plays better out of the pocket and can hurt you with his legs, not to mention he doesn't get rattled when hit, and sometimes dishing out equal punishment himself.
Originally posted by Scotty70 Big Ben is an entirely different type of QB and he should not be considered part of the "Brady/Manning" level. Brady/Manning are strictly pocket passers that can easily be rattled.
Big Ben plays more like Elway (who I think is better than Brady and Manning), who plays better out of the pocket and can hurt you with his legs, not to mention he doesn't get rattled when hit, and sometimes dishing out equal punishment himself.
Indeed Big Ben does not fit any mold easily. He has a monster arm and is quite accurate. Manning and Brady are rattleable, but Manning releases so quickly he rarely gets sacked. I am glad the "in the grasp" rule was significantly toned down. That way we get see the amazing ways in which he gets away like earlier in the season when he was being held by the helmet and still got away! Roethslibreger is very Elway like!
Originally posted by scacchipazzo Ditto that! Big Ben is as good as they come. Also, he's a proven big game performer. For a last minute drive I'd pick him over Brady and Manning.
Plus, when his back is against the wall in the ladies' room.....Big Ben can still bring home the goods...with or without the consent of the opposition!!!
How can you be so against Vick for raising fighting pit bulls, yet you champion a guy who violates women?? *shakes head in wonder*
Originally posted by shortcircuit Plus, when his back is against the wall in the ladies' room.....Big Ben can still bring home the goods...with or without the consent of the opposition!!!
How can you be so against Vick for raising fighting pit bulls, yet you champion a guy who violates women?? *shakes head in wonder*
Originally posted by shortcircuit Plus, when his back is against the wall in the ladies' room.....Big Ben can still bring home the goods...with or without the consent of the opposition!!!
How can you be so against Vick for raising fighting pit bulls, yet you champion a guy who violates women?? *shakes head in wonder*
Show me the convictions! The guy is a creep for sure and his off the field behavior is deplorabl indeed. I also give Vick on field accolades. The difference is one is a sociopath and the other a quasi-perv. Has Roethilsberger tortured women? No. Has he drowned, maimed, electrocuted and so on? I see a big difference between the two. No double standard. WE go back to comparing between a torturer of defenseless animals and organized crime/racketeer, remorseless animal killer and an unconvicted sexual harrasser. Easy pick. I would have neither of them over for dinner or want them to date a daughter!
Originally posted by scacchipazzo Show me the convictions! The guy is a creep for sure and his off the field behavior is deplorabl indeed. I also give Vick on field accolades. The difference is one is a sociopath and the other a quasi-perv. Has Roethilsberger tortured women? No. Has he drowned, maimed, electrocuted and so on? I see a big difference between the two. No double standard. W ...[text shortened]... rasser. Easy pick. I would have neither of them over for dinner or want them to date a daughter!
So animal's are more important to you than women? INteresting! Verrrrrry INteresting!
Originally posted by tomtom232 So animal's are more important to you than women? INteresting! Verrrrrry INteresting!
Never have I said animals are more important than women. I would appreciate no such words ever being uttered about me. The evidnce stands on it's own. One is a convict, the other a free man. If he is ever convicted I would feel as strongly about him as Vick. For now Roethlisbeger is a creep and a boor. Show me some hard evidence whereby I should change this assessment and then if I remain the same then you can hurl any insults you want. For nw Roethsliberger is not deemed a sociopath. You don't know me. I am no PETA person at all, but I do know torturer's of animals are essentially unredeemable.
Originally posted by scacchipazzo Never have I said animals are more important than women. I would appreciate no such words ever being uttered about me. The evidnce stands on it's own. One is a convict, the other a free man. If he is ever convicted I would feel as strongly about him as Vick. For now Roethlisbeger is a creep and a boor. Show me some hard evidence whereby I should change ...[text shortened]... I am no PETA person at all, but I do know torturer's of animals are essentially unredeemable.
Vick made money off something the dogs would be doing if they were wild anyway and Big Ben took advantage of a defenseless woman.
Originally posted by scacchipazzo Ah, but insert an nfl team instead. Take Colts with high school qb and have the Steelers D on the other side. What do you think might happen? Even a senior qb will not be used to the reads, speed on d and other intangibles. Have you seen Colts with Sorgi or whatever his name is? How about the Eagles with Kolb against the Cowboys? Even though Cowboys pla ...[text shortened]... ing qb the lesser qb on other side made the difference. No way Cowboys beat Eagles with Vick in!
OK, I'll insert an NFL team instead. The fact is that a quarterback is only as good as the other 10 guys on the field and the coaching staff allows him to be. Surround a great quarterback with bad coaches and bad players (even simply by NFL standards) and a quarterback isn't going to look very good.
Originally posted by tomtom232 Vick made money off something the dogs would be doing if they were wild anyway and Big Ben took advantage of a defenseless woman.
HOw do you know Roethlisberger did what he is accused of? No one knows. Show me that these women were defenless like the dogs and I will firmly be in your camp regarding the man. Truth is, we know Vick tortured, maimed, elctrocuted, drowned, and so on. Would fear for your wellbeing in the presence of Vick or Roethsliberger? I don't approve of the latter, but the former gives me the willies! It is not a huge leap to think he might someday hurt other humans. Big Ben might respond to treatment. There is no treatment for Vick's sociopathy. He is as untreatable as a Mengele! UNredeemable, untreatable and likely to progress to worse things. Have you ever heard of kids who pulled wings off of flies? Latsly, these were not wild dogs. Wahtever they might do in the wild is irrelevant. Do you approve then of hurting animals simply because they were offspring of wilder animals and might do wild things? Vick's activity a commercial venture? You have a strange idea about commerce and that aspect of it is also irrelevant! A fly is a fairly worthless animal. Would you shudder knowing that serial killers frequently hurt animals. Vick is closer to a serial killer than Roehtsilberger is to being a rapist. If any proof had come forth about this there would have been way worse than a six game suspension reduced to four.
Originally posted by Eladar OK, I'll insert an NFL team instead. The fact is that a quarterback is only as good as the other 10 guys on the field and the coaching staff allows him to be. Surround a great quarterback with bad coaches and bad players (even simply by NFL standards) and a quarterback isn't going to look very good.
NO argument there. Like any other sport coahnig is paramount to success, yet no amount of coaching will make a bad QB better. Take for example Dallas' poject of a few years back, Quincy Carter. No amount of coaching made him better. Carter would be bad on a high school team, was worse on a pro team. The reality is that more often than not QB's make cocahes look brilliant. SOme player more coahcable than others. Raw talent only goes so far. It is doubtful John Fox will turn Tebow into a nfl prodigy!
Originally posted by quackquack Roethlisberger (who is very good) was absolutely awful in his first Superbowl win. His team won inspite of him.
He simply is not Peyton Manning who has 4 MVPs or Tom Brady who has two Super Bowl MVPs, will win his 2nd MVP. FUrthermore, Brady/ Manning are far more important to their team's success that Roethlisberger (his team did quite well this year when he was suspended).
Simply put, the Steelers just keep on winning no matter who is on their team.
Originally posted by whodey Simply put, the Steelers just keep on winning no matter who is on their team.
The Steelers hadn't won a Super Bowl in 25 years when they got Big Ben; in their second year with him they hoisted the trophy. Apparently that was an extraordinary coincidence.
Originally posted by scacchipazzo Roethlisberger ws not awful, just mediocre, but did not screw it up. He was brilliant in his second SB win. IN this latest game he was awful the first half and brilliant the second half. He is a fiery competitoer even when playing poorly! Goodel timed the suspension for when Steelers were going to play patsies. The backup QB's are not bad QB's either. Some day Dixon might get a chance to be a starter.
Patsies? They played Atlanta which wound up the #1 seed in the NFC, the Titans (who were expected to be contenders), Tampa Bay (which won 10 games) and the Ravens. I don't see any "patsies".
The defense was undoubtedly brilliant in those games, but it's hard to envision the Steelers going 12-4 with the offense they got in all the games but the Buc one (where they won big). They didn't score an offensive TD in the Falcon game until the 1st play of OT and had a paltry 127 yards total offense against the Titans (and their only TD was on the opening kickoff).
People tend to forget that the Pats went 11-5 and had one of the most productive offenses in the league the year Brady went down in the first game. I'm not at all sure that Brady is more important to the Pat offense than Big Ben is to the Steelers'.
Is Big Ben now at the Brady/Manning level?
19 Jan '11 19:541 edit
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