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  1. Joined
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    29 Oct '20 13:04
    @metal-brain said
    Surgeon general: Data doesn't back up wearing masks in public amid coronavirus pandemic

    He then explained the reasons why.

    “On an individual level, there was a study in 2015 looking at medical students and medical students wearing surgical masks touch their face on average 23 times,” Adams explained. “We know a major way that you can get respiratory diseases like co ...[text shortened]... WHO did not recommend the general public wear masks and how doing so could increase your virus risk.
    copy, paste, repeat what I just said.
    You make no point.
    Try again.
  2. Joined
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    29 Oct '20 07:05
    yet another of my above misedits
    "that happened to be relevant"
    should be
    "that happened to be irrelevant"
  3. Joined
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    28 Oct '20 13:43
    My above misedit;
    "DOES show it slows the stread. "
    should be
    "DOES show it slows the spread. "
  4. Joined
    06 Mar '12
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    625
    28 Oct '20 11:136 edits
    @metal-brain said
    Data doesn't back up wearing masks in public amid coronavirus pandemic
    This claim has already been repeatedly debunked. Pretending the debunk doesn't exist doesn't make it or the evidence go away. Copy, paste, repeating my past posts and what I already said;

    https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02801-8
    Face masks: what the data say
    The science supports that face coverings are saving lives during the coronavirus pandemic,
    https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/cloth-face-cover-guidance.html
    Evidence for Effectiveness of Masks
    ...emerging evidence from clinical and laboratory studies that shows masks reduce the spray of droplets when worn over the nose and mouth.
    https://theconversation.com/masks-help-stop-the-spread-of-coronavirus-the-science-is-simple-and-im-one-of-100-experts-urging-governors-to-require-public-mask-wearing-138507
    The evidence
    ...There are numerous studies that suggest if 80% of people wear a mask in public, then COVID-19 transmission could be halted.
    ...laboratory and epidemiological evidence...
    https://www.europeanscientist.com/en/public-health/how-effective-are-face-masks-at-slowing-spread-of-coronavirus/
    By far, the strongest evidence for mask-wearing can be found in real-world data or so-called epidemiologic data. Leffler and colleagues analysed data on demographics, testing, lockdowns, and the public wearing of masks from 196 countries and found that countries with cultural norms or government policies supporting public mask-wearing had much lower per-capita mortality rates (1)
    ...
    Another study from Germany reported that face masks reduced the number of newly registered SARS‐CoV‐2 infections by between 15 and 75 per cent over a 20-day period after their mandatory introduction (2). Overall, the authors estimate that face masks reduce the daily growth rate of reported infections by around 47 per cent.
    ...
    The general consensus seems to be that masks – even, simple cloth ones – while clearly not foolproof can significantly slow the spread of the virus and reduce deaths

    (1) Leffler, C.T. et al. Association of country-wide coronavirus mortality with demographics, testing, lockdowns, and public wearing of masks. Update August 4, 2020. medRxiv (2020). DOI: 10.1101/2020.05.22.20109231

    (2) Mitze, T. et al. Face Masks Considerably Reduce Covid-19 Cases in Germany: A Synthetic Control Method Approach. IZA Discussion Paper No. 13319 (2020). Available at SSRN: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3620634

    (3) Fischer, E.P. et al. Low-cost measurement of facemask efficacy for filtering expelled droplets during speech. Science Advancese (2020). DOI: 10.1126/sciadv.abd3083

    (4) Simha, P.P. and Rao, P.S.M. Universal trends in human cough airflows at large distances featured. Physics of Fluids (2020). DOI: 10.1063/5.0021666

    (5) Sickbert-Bennett, E.E. et al. Filtration Efficiency of Hospital Face Mask Alternatives Available for Use During the COVID-19 Pandemic. JAMA Internal Medicine (2020). DOI:
    ..."
    https://www.wsj.com/articles/face-masks-really-do-matter-the-scientific-evidence-is-growing-11595083298
    Face Masks Really Do Matter. The Scientific Evidence Is Growing.
    Face masks are emerging as one of the most powerful weapons to fight the new coronavirus, with growing evidence that facial coverings help prevent transmission
    The research Dr. Redfield cited included a recently published study suggesting that universal use of surgical masks helped reduce rates of confirmed coronavirus infections among health-care workers at the Mass General Brigham health-care system in Massachusetts.
    Researchers from around the world have found many different kinds of masks can significantly reduce the spread of coronavirus,
    Their findings largely align with other recently published research.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/facemasks-shown-to-cut-spread-of-covid-19-9r92zfpb8
    Facemasks slow spread of coronavirus by 40 per cent, study shows

    The above shows the data shows wearing masks slows the coronavirus spread.
    That data also shows any study that didn't find it didn't find it because it simply didn't look at the data that shows wearing masks slows the coronavirus spread but rather is flawed and/or just lying for political reasons and/or just looked at some other data that happened to be relevant because it does nothing to invalidate the data that DOES show it slows the stread.
    Not looking at the data doesn't make it or the evidence go away. The data that shows wearing masks slows the coronavirus spread is plain to see and has been mentioned in the above links.
    Try again.
  5. Joined
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    625
    28 Oct '20 08:03
    @metal-brain said
    Surgeon general: Data doesn't back up wearing masks in public amid coronavirus pandemic

    He then explained the reasons why.

    “On an individual level, there was a study in 2015 looking at medical students and medical students wearing surgical masks touch their face on average 23 times,” Adams explained. “We know a major way that you can get respiratory diseases like co ...[text shortened]... could increase your virus risk.

    They were telling us the truth back then and they are lying now.
    copy, paste, repeat what I just said.
    You make no point.
    Try again.
  6. Joined
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    27 Oct '20 15:12
    @metal-brain said
    That is a general disclaimer on every article from GR. The article has every source of information on that link. I'll post some of those links here.

    https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/5/19-0994_article

    https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/masking-lack-of-evidence-with-politics/

    https://www.uea.ac.uk/about/-/new-study-reveals-blueprint-for-getting-out-of-covid-19-lockd ...[text shortened]... ld read at least some of a link I post so you don't embarrass yourself making false claims about it.
    none of those links invalidate the overwhelming evidence that masks ARE effective.
    As I just said;
    "
    For every 10 studies showing evidence for x, you can often find at least 1 study that failed to find evidence; that doesn't contradict or invalidate the evidence the 10 found; The one study that didn't find the evidence typically didn't look in the right place.
    "
    You make no point.
    Try again.
  7. Joined
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    27 Oct '20 11:515 edits
    @metal-brain said
    An overview of the current evidence regarding the effectiveness of face masks.

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/are-face-masks-effective-evidence/5720209
    It says at the bottom of that link;

    "Disclaimer: The contents of this article are of sole responsibility of the author(s). The Centre for Research on Globalization will not be responsible for any inaccurate or incorrect statement in this article. "

    In other words, The Centre for Research that made this link didn't bother to check the scientific validity of the authors claims which means all of the content of that link can easily be just all massively biased BS with politically motivated lies and/or cherry picking of data to support a political view while ignoring all data that contradicts that view, which is by the way exactly what it is as shown by the numerous REAL scientific studies, not bogus ones, that we have already posted here that show the exact opposite of the main claim made by that link.

    For every 10 studies showing evidence for x, you can often find at least 1 study that failed to find evidence; that doesn't contradict or invalidate the evidence the 10 found; The one study that didn't find the evidence typically didn't look in the right place.

    Try again.
  8. Joined
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    25 Oct '20 12:266 edits
    @metal-brain said
    60% is not much better than the flip of a coin
    what is required for a flu vaccine to be effective at saving millions of lives has nothing to do with the odds from flipping a coin. Even reducing the flu-related deaths by just 10% can easily result in millions of lives saved so even just a 10% effectiveness can mean its worth taking the flu vaccine and yet the evidence shows flu vaccines generally reduces the number of flu-related deaths from the strain of flu it is for by more than 10% and have world wide already saved MILLIONS of lives; See the evidence in my previous links I provided that you apparently moronically refuse to read.

    Nothing you have said here has contradicted the evidence that proves flu vaccines save millions of lives and thus, by any sane definition of 'effective', flu vaccines have been generally effective.
    My links, that you apparently refuse to read, explains the overwhelming evidence that they are effective. Refusing to read it doesn't show that evidence doesn't exist nor does it show it is invalid and such idiocy convinces nobody here.
    You make no point but rather just moronically pretend to by stating irrelevancies, obviously moronically hoping nobody would notice they are just all just moronic irrelevancies, and your usual completely moronic failed attempted straw mans that convince nobody here.
    You are just trolling.
  9. Joined
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    625
    25 Oct '20 10:227 edits
    @metal-brain said
    10% is not effective.
    This statement changes nothing; Even according to you it starts much higher than 10%. A vaccine doesn't have to be effective forever to still save millions of lives; and, even then, after the effectiveness of a vaccine has finally worn off, if necessary, you could just simply take the same vaccine, or, and far more likely in practice, at least a modified version of it specifically for a booster dose, again. Why not? Are you so ignorant you have never heard of a 'booster dose'?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Booster_dose
    "a booster dose is an extra administration of a vaccine after an earlier (prime) dose. After initial immunization, a booster injection or booster dose is a re-exposure to the immunizing antigen. It is intended to increase immunity against that antigen back to protective levels, after memory against that antigen has declined through time.
    ..."
    Well? Why not?

    But, regardless, the evidence proves flu vaccines save millions of lives and thus, by any sane definition of 'effective', its effective.
    My links, that you apparently refuse to read, explains the overwhelming evidence that they are effective. Refusing to read it doesn't show that evidence doesn't exist nor does it show it is invalid and such idiocy convinces nobody here.
    You make no point but rather just moronically pretend to by stating irrelevancies, obviously moronically hoping nobody would notice they are just all just moronic irrelevancies, and your usual completely moronic failed attempted straw mans that convince nobody here.
    You are just trolling.
  10. Joined
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    625
    25 Oct '20 09:106 edits
    @metal-brain said
    The most commonly used flu shots protect no more than 60% of people who receive them; some years, effectiveness plunges to as low as 10%.
    Assuming all that is accurate and true, none of that contradicts anything in my links I provided nor any of my assertions and none of that proves flue vaccines aren't effective; If they save many human lives, like they actually have, then that means, and contrary to your earlier claim, they are effective by any sane definition of 'effective'.
    My links, that you apparently refuse to read, explains the overwhelming evidence that they are effective. Refusing to read it doesn't show that evidence doesn't exist nor does it show it is invalid and such idiocy convinces nobody here.
    You make no point but rather just moronically pretend to by stating irrelevancies, obviously moronically hoping nobody would notice they are just all just moronic irrelevancies, and your usual completely moronic failed attempted straw mans that convince nobody here.
    You are just trolling.
  11. Joined
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    625
    24 Oct '20 07:22
    @sonhouse said
    @Ponderable
    If we get to the stage of being able to make room temperature superconductors, I calculated a few turns of superconducting cable wrapped around the equator as best as we can, about 50,000 amps flowing would keep flowing till solar storms interacted with the generated field and require inserting more energy into the superconductive coil. That setup would give a ...[text shortened]... nd to induce currents in the coil, it could be automatic compensation to keep up the field strength.
    nobody better stand too close to this superconducting cable πŸ™‚
  12. Joined
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    24 Oct '20 07:201 edit
    @metal-brain said
    Try reading the link I posted.

    https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/09/why-flu-vaccines-so-often-fail
    why should I when you often refuse to read mine?
    You are just trolling.
  13. Joined
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    625
    23 Oct '20 16:474 edits
    @metal-brain said
    Flu vaccines are not very effective either.

    https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/09/why-flu-vaccines-so-often-fail
    https://www.cdc.gov/flu/vaccines-work/vaccineeffect.htm

    "...Flu vaccine prevents millions of illnesses and flu-related doctor’s visits each year. For example, during 2018-2019, flu vaccination prevented an estimated 4.4 million influenza illnesses, 2.3 million influenza-associated medical visits, 58,000 influenza-associated hospitalizations, and 3,500 influenza-associated deaths.

    A 2014 studyexternal icon showed that flu vaccine reduced children’s risk of flu-related pediatric intensive care unit (PICU) admission by 74% during flu seasons from 2010-2012.
    In recent years, flu vaccines have reduced the risk of flu-associated hospitalizations among older adultsexternal icon on average by about 40%.

    A 2018 study showed that from 2012 to 2015, flu vaccination among adults reduced the risk of being admitted to an intensive care unit (ICU) with flu by 82 percent.
    ...
    A 2017 study was the first of its kind to show that flu vaccination can significantly reduce a child’s risk of dying from flu.
    ...
    A 2018 studyexternal icon showed that among adults hospitalized with flu, vaccinated patients were 59 percent less likely to be admitted to the ICU than those who had not been vaccinated. Among adults in the ICU with flu, vaccinated patients on average spent 4 fewer days in the hospital than those who were not vaccinated.
    ...
    *References for the studies listed above can be found at Publications on Influenza Vaccine Benefits. Also, see the A Strong Defense Against Flu: Get Vaccinatedpdf icon! fact sheet.
    ..."


    https://www.pharmaceutical-journal.com/research/perspective-article/it-may-not-be-perfect-but-the-influenza-vaccine-has-saved-many-peoples-lives/11138389.article?firstPass=false
    "...It may not be perfect, but the influenza vaccine has saved many people’s lives
    ...
    Halting an influenza pandemic before the introduction of flu vaccine was an impossible task. Some 20–50 million people worldwide are thought to have died in the outbreak of Spanish flu in 1918–19, nearly 200,000 of them in England. Nearly a century later, the global death toll for the 2009–10 pandemic has been put at 150,000–575,000, with fewer than 500 deaths in the UK. Although better healthcare and antiviral medicines saved many lives in the recent pandemic, vaccination has helped reduce the spread of both seasonal and pandemic flu in the UK for over 50 years.
    ..."

    It took me only about 2 minutes to find those two above links.
    Obviously you cannot find any links that show evidence that contradicts the above two links.
    There, sorted.
  14. Joined
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    22 Oct '20 15:016 edits
    @ponderable said

    it should have read:

    We will be able to discuss the practical implications after we will have seen the first test.
    LOL. I am afraid I am still only just nitpicking here but I think that "we will have seen" really should be just "we have seen"; There is definitely a superfluous "will" there πŸ™‚
    My editing is also far from perfect and I make mistakes all the time; which is kind of ironic when you consider the fact I have only just finally finished writing my book! I have, of course, made sure it is completely free of edit mistakes. I will start a new thread about it and it's subject matter as soon as I get it published via self-publishing on Amazon (To start a new thread about it before publication would be premature and inappropriate so I just have to wait just a bit longer)
  15. Joined
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    22 Oct '20 09:451 edit
    @ponderable said
    We can discuss the practical implications after we saw the first test
    That above statement kind of confused me; Unless what you are suggesting involves some confusing time travel, I think that above word "saw" should have been "see" ? πŸ™‚
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