Junior Seau

Originally posted by quackquack
NHL enforcers may not have committed suicide they simply die. In four months Wade Balek age 35 died. Derek Boogart age 28 had previously died. He had so many concussions he had not played for a few months. Rick Rypien age 27 had depression and was on personal leave. Professional athletes normally do not die at young ages. The same article noted that Bob Probert age 45 also recently died.

I can name you more high school players than that who died on the field.
Should they blame the high schools for the deaths? Those kids were all 18 or under.
There have been several deaths of collegiate athletes as well.

Got news for you, there are people who don't play sports that die young too.
Tons of them.

Originally posted by quackquack
Just like those who deny that global warming exists, you are deny the science and obvious effects of concussions and repeated head trauma. The NFL is changing its game all the time to try to adress this problem because even if you cannot comprehend its seriousness, the liability is obvious. It changes kick off rules, in the grasp rules, defenseless re ...[text shortened]... nt (it doesn't) but because it knows that they will get smacked around in court if they don't.

Where's my denial? I am simply stating three cases are insufficient for a trend to statistically be certain there is one to begin with. That's all. Anecdotal is not scientific. As for global warming, since you bring it up, I guess you failed to follow climate gate? Science is simple yet frequently botched when conclusions are made based on feelings rather than facts. Just because you think it is so does not make it so. Seriousness of a problem does not make a conclusion more likely. Just look at the head injury stats before and post bike helmet laws. On the surface these laws look wonderful. Guess what? Head injuries increased! BTW, no one denies effects of concussions. What we are debating is whether this is the cause of ex-player suicide,so please do not cloud the issue with hyperbole! One factor that has possibly led to n increase in head injuries is the quality of the gear used. Just as with bike helmets people take greater risks thinking they are protected and this may actually be the root cause of increases in head injuries. The issue is complex. Some who have a history of repeated injury like Young and Aikman seem fine and some without a history of repeated concussions present grievous memory loss. Lastly, life is risky. You cannot expect to eliminate all risk from all endeavors Are you going to eliminate police departments because of the risks? Surgeons have a greater risk of heart attacks. Should we sue the AMA and avoid surgery?

Originally posted by shortcircuit
I can name you more high school players than that who died on the field.
Should they blame the high schools for the deaths? Those kids were all 18 or under.
There have been several deaths of collegiate athletes as well.

Got news for you, there are people who don't play sports that die young too.
Tons of them.

I guess you can die anywhere at anytime. But if you have long lists of young healhy kids who died on the field, I'll go with the radical argument that we should prevent it.

Originally posted by scacchipazzo
Where's my denial? I am simply stating three cases are insufficient for a trend to statistically be certain there is one to begin with. That's all. Anecdotal is not scientific. As for global warming, since you bring it up, I guess you failed to follow climate gate? Science is simple yet frequently botched when conclusions are made based on feelings rat ...[text shortened]... risks? Surgeons have a greater risk of heart attacks. Should we sue the AMA and avoid surgery?

The data is scientific. The NYT may have an offensively liberal editorial page but their scientific coverage is excellent. The Boston medical center has studied the brains of former players and the damage to their brains was close to universal. Read the studies. It is the opinion of scientists not mine. It is not an exageration to say the NFL has a major crisis that if they can't fix, they will drastically fall in popularity.

Some jobs have risks. Extra curricular high school activities simply should not have risk of brain damage. If we continue to see the levels of mental injury and suffering, educators simply will decide that it is inappropriate and will simply not be able to get insurance for it. Athletes themselves will choose other sports. It simply isn't cool to have headaches; it certainly isn't cool to have depression or to end up suicidal.

Society will decide what risks we need. I am predicting that we will decide that we need police. Although if we can find ways to make the job safer those changes are likely to be mandated. I believe society will decide that we don't need high school kids running at high speeds leading with their heads. At some points lower level colleges will make similar decisions. It won't all occur in one day, but in will start in the North East where football isn't as ingrained in the culture. Then it will happen at schols that have budgetary issues. But the idea of just laughing the a kid got his bell rung is completely over.

Since you mentioned him, Aikman (ten reported concussions) has headaches all the time and suffered silently for years. No one knows the cause of his headaches because he bowed to the football culture which encourages him to avoid treatment and bury the truth. To me this is shocking.

The NFL has 1800+ former players on 70+ lawsuits. This issue seems massive. no?

Originally posted by quackquack
The data is scientific. The NYT may have an offensively liberal editorial page but their scientific coverage is excellent. The Boston medical center has studied the brains of former players and the damage to their brains was close to universal. Read the studies. It is the opinion of scientists not mine. It is not an exageration to say the NFL has a cking.

The NFL has 1800+ former players on 70+ lawsuits. This issue seems massive. no?

Your information on the lawsuits is skewed.

There are several of those lawsuits that deal with health benefits.

There are several other lawsuits dealing with pension issues and profit sharing.

There are several other lawsuits dealing with royalties and licensing.

There are two lawsuits that I am aware of that are dealing specifically on concussions.

Originally posted by quackquack
The data is scientific. The NYT may have an offensively liberal editorial page but their scientific coverage is excellent. The Boston medical center has studied the brains of former players and the damage to their brains was close to universal. Read the studies. It is the opinion of scientists not mine. It is not an exageration to say the NFL has a ...[text shortened]... cking.

The NFL has 1800+ former players on 70+ lawsuits. This issue seems massive. no?

Latest study evidences former NFL players have a longer life span and better older years than the general population. If there are concussion issues these seem to be related more to modernized equipment than to the game itself. As helmets improved players became more foolhardy, feeling said helmets would offer protection. Perhaps like a sports writer recently suggested removing face masks would curtail players launching themselves like bullets. Adding knee pads has also been suggested since many concussions appear to result from knee-head collisions.

Reason for mistrust of NYT/CNN is their publicly stated agenda against male sports and their anti-NFL bias. The crisis you reference is in the minds of anti-NFL sensationalist reporters. Nothing would please these liberal hacks more than "vaginifying" America more and more and eliminating manly sports. Next they'll pick on MLB and study ex-players who were beaned by pitchers and try and destroy that as well.

Aikman appears to be doing pretty well for someone who suffers "silently" as you say. If is so silent how does anyone know he suffers at all? I do agree with you NYT is offensive!

Here is an interesting tidbit of information that has not been shared with the public
that seems to b a more plausible reason for Seau's suicide. This information comes
from Willie Alexander, a former player who became a successful financial planner
after his playing days were through. Alexander said "someone in a position to know
the truth told me that Junior was broke." He said he asked "How can that be
possible? And now, why isn't it being reported?"

The reason it isn't being reported is because people around him are insisting money
wasn't an issue with him, although it is uncertain how much anyone knew. Seau
reportedly didn't share his problems readily with others, even with close friends and
relatives.

The Seau tragedy is astonishing because he banked paychecks in excess of 75
million dollars over his career. Warren Sapp and Terrell Owens also made plenty too
yet they both recently filed for bankruptcy too.

Alan Hendricks, longtime player agent, was quoted as saying "As hard as it is to
believe, 78 percent of former NFL players are said to be broke within 5 years of
their final game."

Chester Pitts, another former player who is into investment planning says "It's not
that the guys are (jerks) or stupid or don't care. It's a lack of education. They don't
know what they are doing. So they wind up busted at 30 with no college degree."
He goes on to say "Guys want to be businessmen and they have this huge windfall
of money coming in. It's sitting there and they don't know how to just let it sit."

Interesting article which shows that Andrew Sweat former Ohio State linebacker decided to go to law school instead of play football. His explanation "Concussion symptoms didn't want to risk it. Thanks to the browns for the opportunity. Health trumps football any day"
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/law-school-nfl-ohio-state-linebacker-chooses-torts-190045948.html

Originally posted by shortcircuit
To be truthful, there is no way anyone can say that, short of speculation.
Dave Duerson is the only NFL suicide who contended this, and to my knowledge, the
brain autopsy did not prove or disprove the contention.

There are a multitude of ex-NFL players out there who did not commit suicide.
Their bodies are badly brutalized, no doubt, but that was ...[text shortened]... There
are other sports where concussions happen regularly, hockey and rugby to name a couple.

Good point. Athletes are not the only people who kill themselves, lots of us normal folks do too. Depression is depression, I can imagine the loss of the roar of the crowd and the loss of self importance once a successful career is over can lead to severe depression. Ordinary people who retire and have their kids grow up and leave the nest do this also, once a feeling of self worth is gone, suicide is quite common. On a lighter note, wow, the fu$%#r was one hell of a player

Originally posted by mudpie
Good point. Athletes are not the only people who kill themselves, lots of us normal folks do too. Depression is depression, I can imagine the loss of the roar of the crowd and the loss of self importance once a successful career is over can lead to severe depression. Ordinary people who retire and have their kids grow up and leave the nest do this also, once ...[text shortened]... th is gone, suicide is quite common. On a lighter note, wow, the fu$%#r was one hell of a player

Football players and hockey players are not only committing suicide at rates not matched in other walks of life, they also deal with ridiculous levels of permanent head injuries which involve loss of memory, permanent headaches and other things cause by trauma.

Originally posted by quackquack
Football players and hockey players are not only committing suicide at rates not matched in other walks of life, they also deal with ridiculous levels of permanent head injuries which involve loss of memory, permanent headaches and other things cause by trauma.

i am sorry- whats your point?
ban all sports?
ban American football and Hockey?

Honestly this is pointless- people die-fact
People have mental illiness- fact

thats life!

Originally posted by spurs73
i am sorry- whats your point?
ban all sports?
ban American football and Hockey?

Honestly this is pointless- people die-fact
People have mental illiness- fact

thats life!

I guess you are completely missing the point. Repeated hits to head appears to be dangerous. A lot more dangerous then we thought. We need to recognize this and act appropriately. It does not necessarily mean banning it but it probably means looking at it more appropriately. I would expect insurance costs to go up as inevitable injuries are more prevalent. When things are more expensive we likely consume less. I would expect school districts to find the monetary costs and costs of having people injured to be greater and fewer to offer these activities. Similary I would find parents to look at the costs as being greater and be less likely to encourage these activities. Over time smaller colleges will face the same issues. Even rec leagues which I imagine attract older people who still enjoy sports that they played when they were younger will have less demand as fewer people played when the were younger and/ or played less often.
For professionals their are certainly issues of compensation for injuries that occur at work. Junior Seau's earned millions of dollars. He was considered a good guy. If it is believe that his death was caused by trauma and the NFL is resposible there is a huge lawsuit. There are thousands of players like him. Not all are dead. Many have permanent memory loss; many suffer depression; many have headaches. There are patterns and common symptoms. Their causing of action against leagues for failing to minimizing these risks is huge. Even the NFL, the worlds most profitable sport's league, has been making considerable changes to its game in the hope of avoid/ decreasing liability.

Originally posted by quackquack
I guess you are completely missing the point. Repeated hits to head appears to be dangerous. A lot more dangerous then we thought. We need to recognize this and act appropriately. It does not necessarily mean banning it but it probably means looking at it more appropriately. I would expect insurance costs to go up as inevitable injuries are more p , has been making considerable changes to its game in the hope of avoid/ decreasing liability.

I think the NFL players are aware of the risks of concussions, yet they still play. If one wants to avoid head injuries then one should avoid playing.... its ridiculous to play NFL football and then complain/sue about getting hurt. The ex or current players suing deserve what they've gotten themselves into if that is how they're going to play the game, trying to soak up more money on top of their millions.