How any times have I heard this from various Christians over the years.
And yet in Revelation chapter 14 we read from verse 9...
A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives its mark on their forehead or on their hand, they, too, will drink the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb (Jesus). And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever.
So as Jesus (The Lamb) will be in hell with his angels overseeing the burning alive of non Christians, we can assume that “Hell” isn’t actually Hell after all?
@divegeestersaid How any times have I heard this from various Christians over the years.
And yet in Revelation chapter 14 we read from verse 9...
A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives its mark on their forehead or on their hand, they, too, will drink the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength ...[text shortened]... seeing the burning alive of non Christians, we can assume that “Hell” isn’t actually Hell after all?
The only kind of "Hell" I perceive as actually existing is where the word is used as a metaphor [of religious origin] for situations where there is relentless and deliberate egregious evil being visited upon each other human beings.
If "the presence of God" and "obedience to God's will" are in fact [at least to my way of thinking], wittingly or unwitting, simply kinds of metaphors for morally sound, orderly and mutually beneficial interactions between people [like the ones encouraged by the teachings attributed to Jesus], then I can see how one could believe that "Hell is where God isn't" describes despicable situations that are, regrettably, an ever-present dimension of the human condition.
As for there being some sort of "Hell" experienced after one dies, I see no credible reason to believe in such a thing.
@divegeestersaid How any times have I heard this from various Christians over the years.
And yet in Revelation chapter 14 we read from verse 9...
A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives its mark on their forehead or on their hand, they, too, will drink the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength ...[text shortened]... seeing the burning alive of non Christians, we can assume that “Hell” isn’t actually Hell after all?
Clearly then we can agree that the threadbare trope “Hell is where god isn’t”, is a fallacy, because if hell is a literal place as described in Revelation, then Jesus (the mighty God) is in there overseeing it all.
Hell is described in two ways in Orthodoxy -- we have the fire of God burning those who are in hell at the last judgment, and we also have hell described as an outer darkness.
These perhaps refer to hell at two different points, or one is more figurative and the other more literal.
@philokaliasaid Hell is described in two ways in Orthodoxy -- we have the fire of God burning those who are in hell at the last judgment, and we also have hell described as an outer darkness.
These perhaps refer to hell at two different points, or one is more figurative and the other more literal.
Do you have a scriptural link to the “outer darkness” reference?
Most Bible scholars agree that the phrase “outer darkness” refers to hell or, more properly, the lake of fire (Matthew 8:12; 13:42; 13:50; and 25:23).
The outer darkness of Jesus’ parable is called “blackest darkness” in Jude 1:13. Again, a place of judgment is the obvious meaning, since it is reserved for “godless men” (verse 4).
@rookie54said Most Bible scholars agree that the phrase “outer darkness” refers to hell or, more properly, the lake of fire (Matthew 8:12; 13:42; 13:50; and 25:23).
The outer darkness of Jesus’ parable is called “blackest darkness” in Jude 1:13. Again, a place of judgment is the obvious meaning, since it is reserved for “godless men” (verse 4).
https://www.gotquestions.org/outer-dar ...[text shortened]... html
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i do not know of any of these places
perhaps they are
perhaps they are not
No, not a place of judgement but of punishment, the carrying out of the sentence that judgement calls for.
@rookie54said Most Bible scholars agree that the phrase “outer darkness” refers to hell or, more properly, the lake of fire (Matthew 8:12; 13:42; 13:50; and 25:23).
The outer darkness of Jesus’ parable is called “blackest darkness” in Jude 1:13. Again, a place of judgment is the obvious meaning, since it is reserved for “godless men” (verse 4).
https://www.gotquestions.org/outer-darkness.html
“Most biblical scholars” Evidence of this please?
Do you have a scripture which references “outer darkness”? The scriptures you provided in the “got questions” page refer to someone being thrown “outside” into the “darkness” not a specific place of “outer darkness” there is a difference which is more than semantic.
“Outer darkness” indicates reference specific place like “purgatory” for example (Another place which doesn’t exist by the way).
Outside means outside of the here and now which in context of the text refers to outside of the presence of God which is “darkness” as opposed to God being “light”.
@divegeestersaid “Most biblical scholars” Evidence of this please?
Do you have a scripture which references “outer darkness”? The scriptures you provided in the “got questions” page refer to someone being thrown “outside” into the “darkness” not a specific place of “outer darkness” there is a difference which is more than semantic.
“Outer darkness” indicates reference specific plac ...[text shortened]... e text refers to outside of the presence of God which is “darkness” as opposed to God being “light”.
Do you have a scriptural link to the “outer darkness” reference?
you asked for a link
i know you did not ask me for the link,
but i went there as i was interested in what was to be found
as for evidence that "most biblical scholars" either agree or disagree i personally cannot provide it
the quote is from the link asked for and provided
links on the internet are as suspect as any other assertion by any other expert or layman, so i understand if you are skeptical as to the accuracy of the information
HA!!!
i am skeptical myself, and yet am willing to bring the suspect information to the fore
@divegeestersaid How any times have I heard this from various Christians over the years.
And yet in Revelation chapter 14 we read from verse 9...
A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives its mark on their forehead or on their hand, they, too, will drink the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength ...[text shortened]... seeing the burning alive of non Christians, we can assume that “Hell” isn’t actually Hell after all?
IF.....and I mean IF, Jesus was crucified for the sins of mankind.....and that is true, then there is NO hell.
“Hell is where God isn’t”
22 Jun '20 22:00
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