1. R
    Standard memberRemoved
    Joined
    03 Jan '13
    Moves
    13080
    05 Dec '19 11:07
    What do the co-workers among the local churches in the North America emphasize in bringing people to salvation ? [my bolding below]

    In order to be saved, one must have a living contact with Jesus Christ. Therefore, in bringing unbelievers to salvation, we emphasize prayer and calling on the name of the Lord. According to Romans 10:9 and 10, if a man is to be saved, he must believe in his heart and confess with his mouth.
  2. Joined
    16 Feb '08
    Moves
    116436
    05 Dec '19 12:20
    @sonship said
    @divegeester

    Is it a prerequisite of salvation for a person to believe in the trinity doctrine?


    In this word from Jesus which one of the "We" is God and which one is a doctrine?

    [quote] [b] "Jesus answered and said to him, If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word, and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make an abode with him ...[text shortened]... here is a doctrine ?

    Or is the Father God and the Son God ?

    And "lol" is not a valid answer.
    Is that a

    "yes a person MUST believe the trinity doctrine as a prerequisite for salvation..."

    Or is that a

    "no a person does not have believe the trinity doctrine as a prerequisite for salvation..."

    Simple question with a binary answer.
  3. Joined
    16 Feb '08
    Moves
    116436
    05 Dec '19 12:251 edit
    From the Local Church group website:

    "In order to be saved, one must have a living faith in the Person and work of Jesus Christ, the Son of God. Every genuinely saved one has what the Bible calls the “common faith” (Titus 1:4), which includes what we must believe in order to be saved: we must believe that the Bible is the complete divine revelation wholly inspired by God; that there is a unique Triune God,..."

    https://contendingforthefaith.org/en/the-beliefs-and-practices-of-the-local-churches/#cid6

    @sonship: Do you agree with this statement in it's entirety ?
  4. R
    Standard memberRemoved
    Joined
    03 Jan '13
    Moves
    13080
    05 Dec '19 13:452 edits
    @divegeester

    Yes. But I do not take the paragraph in isolation. I think the brothers were wise to include for clarity and balance this additional statement.

    [my bolding]

    In order to be saved, one must have a living contact with Jesus Christ. Therefore, in bringing unbelievers to salvation, we emphasize prayer and calling on the name of the Lord. According to Romans 10:9 and 10, if a man is to be saved, he must believe in his heart and confess with his mouth.


    Furthermore in receiving one another it says we should receive those who are weak in faith.

    Romans 14:1

    "Now him who is weak in faith receive, but not for the purpose of passing judgment on his considerations."

    For example - the reigning of Christ on the earth indicated by these words in the pamphlet -

    that He has been exalted to the right hand of God and made the Lord of all; and that He is coming again for His own and to set up His kingdom on earth.


    It some earlier stage of a Christians' maturity he may not be clear about the reigning of Christ on the earth. Perhaps he thinks he only "goes to Heaven" forever.

    I would consider this immature in understanding or weaker in faith.
    Of course eventually, imo, he will include this aspect of salvation.
  5. R
    Standard memberRemoved
    Joined
    03 Jan '13
    Moves
    13080
    05 Dec '19 13:461 edit
    Now, you usually insist you GET your answer and usually do not RETURN the same promptness when you are asked something.

    So answer:

    Which one of the divine "We" in John 14:23 is only a doctrine? The Father or the Son?

    " ... We will come to him and make an abode with him?" (See John 14:23)

    Before you go to further sharpen your microscope's focus on me, YOU reply to my examination of your position on that.
  6. R
    Standard memberRemoved
    Joined
    03 Jan '13
    Moves
    13080
    05 Dec '19 13:511 edit
    @divegeester

    Simple question with a binary answer.


    Is "We" God in John 14:23 ?

    1 or 0

    Yes or No

    " ... We will come to him and make an abode with him"
  7. R
    Standard memberRemoved
    Joined
    03 Jan '13
    Moves
    13080
    05 Dec '19 14:343 edits
    Christian church to Divegeester ...
    Christian church to Divegeester ...
    Come in Divegeester.


    You want a binary answer about the unique triune God?
    1 or 0


    the Father is God -
    the Son is God -
    the Holy Spirit is God


    Yes or No?

    1 or 0 ?

    If 0 (No) then which two are not God ?
  8. R
    Standard memberRemoved
    Joined
    03 Jan '13
    Moves
    13080
    05 Dec '19 14:541 edit
    Divegeester, while you are possibly searching your heart to see how you would answer, the Christians I meet with have a preference or emphasis in leading people to salvation.

    In order to be saved, one must have a living contact with Jesus Christ. Therefore, in bringing unbelievers to salvation, we emphasize prayer and calling on the name of the Lord. According to Romans 10:9 and 10, if a man is to be saved, he must believe in his heart and confess with his mouth.


    And to keep the minimum standard of prescribed Christian unity - we see in the New Testament that what distinguishes one church from another is geography - locality. So the term - local churches.
  9. Joined
    16 Feb '08
    Moves
    116436
    05 Dec '19 19:22
    @sonship said
    Now, you usually insist you GET your answer and usually do not RETURN the same promptness when you are asked something.

    So answer:
    Calm down you slavering loon. I’ve been at work.
  10. Joined
    16 Feb '08
    Moves
    116436
    05 Dec '19 19:26
    @sonship said
    @divegeester
    Yes.
    Gosh.

    I don’t know if I’m more surprised at you finally admitting that you believe that believing in the trinity is essential for salvation - or more surprised that you actually believe it.

    I’m feel a sense of disappointment if I’m honest.
  11. Joined
    06 May '15
    Moves
    27373
    05 Dec '19 20:29
    @divegeester

    I think the doctrine of the trinity might be a gullibility test, similar to "divegeester is a Christian."
  12. R
    Standard memberRemoved
    Joined
    03 Jan '13
    Moves
    13080
    06 Dec '19 14:541 edit
    @divegeester


    Just answer as you recommend - in a binary fashion.
    You've had time to think about it.

    the Father is God -
    the Son is God -
    the Holy Spirit is God


    Yes or No?

    1 or 0 ?

    If 0 (No) then which two are not God ?
  13. R
    Standard memberRemoved
    Joined
    03 Jan '13
    Moves
    13080
    06 Dec '19 15:00
    @caesar-salad

    I think the doctrine of the trinity might be a gullibility test,


    Why do you think that a belief in the three-oneness of God is a test of gullibility ?

    I think it may be a FILTER to FILTER out all human pride. That's what I suspect.

    After all, John 3:16 is salvation to whosoever believes, not to whosoever can explain.

    I think when created human beings bump up against the uncreated eternal God the pride of man is filtered out by the wonderful mysteriousness of the Divine Being.

    We can enjoy God. We can experience God. We can live in oneness with God, Yet we cannot fully understand the infinite and eternal living One.
  14. R
    Standard memberRemoved
    Joined
    03 Jan '13
    Moves
    13080
    11 Dec '19 14:073 edits
    The prediction of the need for recovery is in the New Testament:

    "But the Spirit says expressly that in the latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and teachings of demons." (1 Tim. 4:1)

    Since Paul predicted that some would depart from the faith being led astray to deceiving spiritual forces, there would be the need for recovery of what is under attack, the faith.

    The following list is only representative of some of the things which come out of this apostasy. They are samples and not an exhaustive list of errors.

    " ... some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrine of demons by means of the hypocrisy of men who speak lies, of men who are branded in their own conscience as with a hot iron.

    Who forbid marriage and command abstinence from foods, ..."


    This is the legal regulation forbidding a Christian to have a marriage partner.
    Paul says it is a doctrine of demons.

    A voluntary celebacy for the sake of serving God is one matter. The insistance of a legal obligation forbidding marriage is a demonic doctrine.

    Recovery of the truth involves recognizing the facade of piety by abstaining from marriage or certain foods as a legality is a destructive tactical attack of God's enemy against the church.
  15. R
    Standard memberRemoved
    Joined
    03 Jan '13
    Moves
    13080
    11 Dec '19 19:221 edit
    So the need for recovery is not only predicted by Paul but by Peter also.

    "But there arose also false prophets among the people, as also among you there will be false teachers, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction." ( 2 Peter. 2:1)

    Paul predicts the need for recovery.
    Peter predicts the need for recovery.

    They of course only followed Christ who warned of the need for recovery to God's original intention even from the days of Judaism.

    The principle of recovery is seen in Matthew 19:3-8. When the Pharisees asked the Lord Jesus about divorce, He said that at the beginning God made them male and female and that a man would leave his father and mother, be joined to his wife, and that the two would become one flesh. The Lord further pointed out that what God had joined together man should not put asunder. The Pharisees then inquired why Moses allowed a man to give a writing of divorce and put his wife away. To this, the Lord replied, “Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.” Notice the phrases “at the beginning” and “from the beginning.” These phrases imply that the Lord was standing with what God had ordained in the beginning and that He was seeking to bring the present situation regarding marriage back to what it was in the beginning. This is recovery. Because the stubborn ones had become hard of heart, Moses allowed them to put away their wives by writing a bill of divorce. But this was not God’s intention in the beginning.


    Copied from What is God's Recovery?
    https://contendingforthefaith.org/en/what-is-gods-recovery/
Back to Top

Cookies help us deliver our Services. By using our Services or clicking I agree, you agree to our use of cookies. Learn More.I Agree