Will spread like gangrene

Interesting read in my devotions this morning.

Remind them of these things, and charge them before God not to quarrel about words, which does no good, but only ruins the hearers. Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth. But avoid irreverent babble, for it will lead people into more and more ungodliness, and their talk will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, who have swerved from the truth, saying that the resurrection has already happened. They are upsetting the faith of some. But God's firm foundation stands, bearing this seal: “The Lord knows those who are his,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of the Lord depart from iniquity.”

@kellyjay said
Remind them of these things, and charge them before God not to quarrel about words, which does no good, but only ruins the hearers. Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth. But avoid irreverent babble, for it will lead people into more and more ungodliness, and their talk will spread ...[text shortened]... d knows those who are his,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of the Lord depart from iniquity.”

Diseases, insects, cockroaches, unclean dogs, animal excrement, pigs, germs, maggots, stinking lepers, mental illnesses, and yeah, why not... gangrene.

Dissent, disagreement, discussion.

@fmf said
Diseases, insects, cockroaches, unclean dogs, animal excrement, pigs, germs, maggots, stinking lepers, mental illnesses, and yeah, why not... gangrene.

Dissent, disagreement, discussion.

Here is a sample of some "gangrenous" verbatims, all actual quotes and all from supposed Christians on this forum and all because someone disagrees with them and challenges their firmly held beliefs...

Son of Satan and worse than Satan
Diabolical
Morals of a lynch mob murderer
Mocker, fool, evil
Criminalising people and a character assassinatior
Systematic torturer and actual sadist
Enemy of God and christian basher
Monster and underminer of people's faith
Narcissist and blinded with pride.
Diseased with questionings
Career opposer of the servants of God
Corrupted in mind

And the ultimate I suppose is "deserving of burning in hell for eternity". For not believing in the doctrine of eternal suffering.

Of course if none of these work you always just ignore people...

@kellyjay said
Interesting read in my devotions this morning.

Remind them of these things, and charge them before God not to quarrel about words, which does no good, but only ruins the hearers. Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth. But avoid irreverent babble, for it will lead people into more ...[text shortened]... d knows those who are his,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of the Lord depart from iniquity.”

If Galileo had not dared to "upset the faith of some", we would still believe the Earth to be an immovable pancake at the center of the universe.

@moonbus said
If Galileo had not dared to "upset the faith of some", we would still believe the Earth to be an immovable pancake at the center of the universe.

I believe some in this forum still harbor such a belief; while others find themselves wishing it were true.

@moonbus said
If Galileo had not dared to "upset the faith of some", we would still believe the Earth to be an immovable pancake at the center of the universe.

Hear hear.

@moonbus said
If Galileo had not dared to "upset the faith of some", we would still believe the Earth to be an immovable pancake at the center of the universe.

If the truth can not be sought out, we are in trouble. To argue for the sake of argument is another thing all together.

But avoid irreverent babble, for it will lead people into more and more ungodliness,

Paul's intention was for godliness to increase. "Ungodliness" ever pulls in the opposite direction.

Godliness (sometimes translated piety) is a deep matter. It is the invisible God being manifest in the flesh. God manifest in the flesh starts with Christ the Head and expands into the church as His Body.

God manifest in the flesh is "godliness" throughout the two Timothy epistles and Titus. So Paul was not for the opposite "ungodliness" which is just the manifestation of the declining fallen Satanified man, corrupted by God's enemy.

@kellyjay said
If the truth can not be sought out, we are in trouble. To argue for the sake of argument is another thing all together.

Are you here to seek out the truth or argue for the sake of arguing?

@sonship said

But avoid irreverent babble, for it will lead people into more and more ungodliness,

Paul's intention was for godliness to increase. "Ungodliness" ever pulls in the opposite direction.

Godliness (sometimes translated piety) is a deep matter. It is the invisible God being manifest in the flesh. God manifest in the flesh starts with Chris ...[text shortened]... b] which is just the manifestation of the declining fallen Satanified man, corrupted by God's enemy.

You really ought to read FMF's reply to KellyJay and my post also, because within them are some, but by no means all, of your nasty name-calling.

@KellyJay

for it will lead people into more and more ungodliness, and their talk will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, who have swerved from the truth, saying that the resurrection has already happened. They are upsetting the faith of some.

I greatly appreciate Paul's word here. It shows that this wrong teaching of the bodily resurrection having already occurred was a moral matter. It was not just a doctrinal matter. It was a matter that effected the morality and living of those who were led astray by it.

I use to think that it was just important to be doctrinally correct about such a thing as the coming physical resurrection. But all the things related to the Gospel have a moral relation. Somehow, this overthrowing of the faith of some brought their spiritual life low. To tamper with the truth too often has a negative effect on the spiritual living of the believers.

Hymenaeus and Philetus departed from teaching "healthy teaching". It was unhealthy to tamper with the Gospel making the saints think that the bodily resurrection had already occurred.

Paul did teach that within, spiritually, we are raised with Christ. They should have emphasized this. Rather they dissented and began to teach differently. They taught different things and the faith of the hearers was watered down.

Worse still, their wrong concepts spread like a cancerous killing disease - like gangrene. This was an attack against the church by God's enemy.

@sonship said
@KellyJay

To tamper with the truth too often has a negative effect on the spiritual living of the believers.

The trinity for example?

The teachings of Witness Lee for another example?

@divegeester

When a Christian such as I uses harsh language in rebuttal, it may be because the need is there.

But it may also be that the failure has been on the Christian's part because of a shortage of grace. In that case he needs to take the blood of Christ for the cleansing of errors and failures and keep going.

He also may have to apologize for his loss of temper. I have done both.
I do not expect that I will never do so again. For some of these matters are matters involving our emotions.

Of course some people who are critics of the Gospel find any rebuke to be a insult which is unfair to them. They can easily use such words towards someone. That is different. But when words come their way, their sensitivity increases many fold times. And sometimes they hold on to the offense and hardly ever forget.

"I dish it out. But you do not dish it out. If YOU dish it out I will remind you for years that you were mean to me. But I can insult you - that's only normal reaction which is needful for the discussion."

Lastly, Christians who repent under the blood and apologize should never grovel. One acknowledgment of a failure before God and man is good enough.

Sometimes something will attempt to make you re-apologize. This is to grovel and think that repetition will cleanse you.

Repetition of repentance does not cleanse us. The blood of Jesus cleanses us. And time does not cleanse us. The blood of Jesus cleanses us.

Once you have brought your failure under the blood of Jesus, you need not re-do that again and again. ONCE is all that is needed. The Holy Spirit convicts. The Devil accuses.

The Holy Spirit convicts that you may be corrected and cleansed in the redemption of Christ.

The Devil accuses to keep you down perpetually. The accuser tries to get you to believe that groveling will have to be done many times before you can go on.

Heads up. If I say "Hey, I am sorry for what I wrote" never expect me to repeat that again several more times.

FMF, Divegeester, Ghost of a Duke, Rajk999 and anyone else, with me you get ONE sincere apology if I feel to apologize. Now if YOU feel to continue to remind me or others of offenses, that has no further effect on me. I didn't learn faith in Christ in that way.

@kellyjay said
If the truth can not be sought out, we are in trouble. To argue for the sake of argument is another thing all together.

Well then, let's have the truth about the resurrection. FMF has another thread going . . .