1. Standard memberCalJust
    It is what it is
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    21 Apr '19 15:231 edit
    @sonship said
    @FMF

    As they explore this question of yours where should they look for the element of joy in your underlying opinion here?
    Seems to me fmf hit a raw nerve there. He just can’t get over it!
  2. The Ghost Chamber
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    21 Apr '19 15:30
    @sonship said
    @FMF

    As they explore this question of yours where should they look for the element of joy in your underlying opinion here?
    That horse was dead even before you started flogging it.
  3. The Ghost Chamber
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    25 Apr '19 09:29
    'Again I saw that under the sun the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, nor bread to the wise, nor riches to the intelligent, nor favor to those with knowledge, but time and chance happen to them all.'

    Ecclesiastes 9:11
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    25 Apr '19 17:191 edit
    @fmf said
    Just looking for people's ideas and definitions regarding 'fairness' when it comes to how groups of people [which are large enough for all their members to know each other] organize themselves. Not looking for a fully fleshed out manifesto.
    I think a "fair society" [although I'm not really clear on what you mean by "groups of people large enough for all their members to know each other"] will operate by at least these three freedoms:

    Freedom of thought
    Freedom of expression
    Freedom of opportunity

    Within these would include the chapters of; religion, politics, ideals, healthcare, education, marriage, sexual orientation.
  5. R
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    25 Apr '19 20:004 edits
    @FMF

    What does "fair" mean for you when talking about how you think society should organize itself?


    Revelation 21 and 22 show where history is going. But you probably will find it a "joyless ideology".

    Well for others' sake some elements of this world guaranteed to come:

    And I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and the sea is no more. (21:1)

    And I saw the holy city Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. (v.2)


    Could someone hand FMF a handkerchief for his melancholy sniffles?
    You know? - this "joyless ideology" he finds unbearably gloomy.

    And I heard a loud voice out of the throne, saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will tabernacle with them, and they will be His peoples, and God Himself will be with them and be their God. (v.3)

    And He will wipe away every tear from their eyes; and death will be no more, nor will there be sorrow or crying or pain anymore; for the former things have passed away. (v.4)


    Bear with the "joyless ideology" just a little more folks. This is the climax of human history and the culmination of all God's salvation work.

    At last "the will of God" is fully accomplished unhindered for eternity.

    And He who sits on the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And He said, Write, for these words are faithful and true. (v.5)

    And He said to me, They have come to pass. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give to him who thirsts from the spring of the water of life freely." (v.6)


    What a reason to rejoice and exalt in Jesus Christ the Savior.

    But wait a moment while the Atheist tells us his vision of the consummation of human history. Prepare yourself to something more cheery.

    "And they shall see His face, and His name will be on their foreheads. (22:4)

    and night will be no more; and they have no need of the light of a lamp and of the light of the sun, for the Lord God will shine upon them; and they shall reign forever and ever. " (22:5)
  6. Standard memberwolfgang59
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    25 Apr '19 23:09
    @caljust said
    I suppose I am talking about theoretical clean slates - what we get to start out with, and not necessarily what society provides.
    I like your clean slate analogy.

    What if everyone were born with a "clean slate"?

    So that their future did not depend upon
    where they were born
    to whom they were born
    what they were born with (or without)

    that would be a good start.
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    25 Apr '19 23:10
    @sonship said
    Could someone hand FMF a handkerchief for his melancholy sniffles?
    You know? - this "joyless ideology" he finds unbearably gloomy.
    As I have said on several occasions before, you are one of the most joyless ideologues I have ever come across.

    By contrast, I have met - and known and loved and lived with and worked with - countless Christians over the decades whose demeanour and acts under the influence of their Christian faith has been inspiring, admirable and joyful.

    You are not one of them. I say this without melancholy, without sniffles and with no need for a handkerchief.
  8. R
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    25 Apr '19 23:272 edits
    @FMF

    As I have said on several occasions before, you are one of the most joyless ideologues I have ever come across.

    By contrast, I have met - and known and loved and lived with and worked with - countless Christians over the decades whose demeanour and acts under the influence of their Christian faith has been inspiring, admirable and joyful.

    You are not one of them. I say this without melancholy, without sniffles and with no need for a handkerchief.


    And with absolutely nothing to cause more human hopeful joyful reason for celebration then what is promised in Revelation 21, 22. That's the point. And we have Christ's resurrection as a down payment and guarantee.


    Prove me wrong and start writing about your happier Godless ideologue.

    Looking forward to it in your next post.
  9. Joined
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    25 Apr '19 23:44
    @sonship said
    @FMF

    [quote] As I have said on several occasions before, you are one of the most joyless ideologues I have ever come across.

    By contrast, I have met - and known and loved and lived with and worked with - countless Christians over the decades whose demeanour and acts under the influence of their Christian faith has been inspiring, admirable and joyful.

    You are not o ...[text shortened]... and start writing about your happier Godless ideologue.

    Looking forward to it in your next post.
    You are easily one of the most joyless Christians I have ever come across. Do you believe your self-appointed "teaching" attracts more than it repulses?
  10. R
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    25 Apr '19 23:531 edit
    @FMF

    You are easily one of the most joyless Christians I have ever come across. Do you believe your self-appointed "teaching" attracts more than it repulses?


    Do your job. This point you delight to repeat again and again has been made.

    Now, in your Atheism where is history going which offers you more joy ?
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    25 Apr '19 23:56
    @sonship said
    Now, in your Atheism where is history going ?
    You can't blame "Atheism" [with that capital A] for you being such a joyless person. Perhaps your demeanour is caused by the influence of what you believe is "Jesus flowing through" you or the influence of how you claim you are "becoming like Jesus". Maybe that personal process is the cause of your joylessness.
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    26 Apr '19 00:01
    @divegeester said
    I'm not really clear on what you mean by "groups of people large enough for all their members to know each other"
    I am talking about how our relationships with strangers - to whom we are bound in some geographical or political way - are governed. So I am not talking about small groups - like families or neighbourhoods - where people know each other. What do you think a "fair family" is, is a different question from What do you think a "fair society" is. I think.
  13. R
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    26 Apr '19 00:033 edits
    @FMF

    It is noted that you only fell good to repeat personal assault on my psychological state as you see it, with dodging, evading, running from outlining your alternative vision for a joyous outcome for the human race.

    Thanks, up to this point, for demonstrating your vacuousness to present anything more a reason for rejoicing then the conclusion of the Bible.

    Now, one more time for the good feeling instead of substance -

    Who is the most joyless poster on the Forum ??
  14. Joined
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    26 Apr '19 00:06
    @sonship said
    Who is the most joyless poster on the Forum ??
    You should call it how you see it. With Eladar gone, you are the most joyless Christian here. Who do you think is the most joyless poster on the Forum?
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    26 Apr '19 00:101 edit
    @sonship said
    It is noted that you only fell good to repeat personal assault on my psychological state as you see it, with dodging, evading, running from outlining your alternative vision for a joyous outcome for the human race.
    Your "psychological state" is in play because you have claimed that "Jesus is flowing through" you and that you are "becoming like Jesus" and then become very flustered when asked to cite any evidence to back your claims.

    As for my take on the human condition, it can be distilled from my 50,000 or so posts on this forum on the subject, relatively few of which you have ever bothered to engage.
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