Thoughtcrimes

Morality, to my way of thinking, governs action and human interaction.

I don't subscribe to the notion of there being thoughtcrimes and immoral thoughts.

Such forms of supposed guilt belong in the realm of religion.

Thoughts?

@fmf said
Morality, to my way of thinking, governs action and human interaction.

I don't subscribe to the notion of there being thoughtcrimes and immoral thoughts.

Such forms of supposed guilt belong in the realm of religion.

Thoughts?

Wrong. That belongs to stupid Christian sects. See my thread lower down. God will render every man according to his DEEDS. Nowhere will you find justification for the notion that God will render every man according to his thoughts.

Evil thoughts however are warned against, since these often materialize into deeds.

@rajk999 said
Evil thoughts however are warned against, since these often materialize into deeds.

I think an intention to do an evil thing, if it materializes into a plan or into a conspiracy or any preparation, even if it doesn't come to pass, means one is dealing with immoral actions.

@fmf said
I think an intention to do an evil thing, if it materializes into a plan or into a conspiracy or any preparation, even if it doesn't come to pass, means one is dealing with immoral actions.

Ok, so now you are speaking of evil thoughts that are in fact materializing into planning, conspiring and preparing. It does not come to pass yet. Then yes those are immoral actions.

James explains here
But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. (James 1:14-15 KJV)

So it is something only Christ will have to decide at what point does it constitute an evil deed.

I would think that if it stays inside your head then it is not a sin. Jesus said evil thoughts defile the man, but whether or not a man faces judgment for evil thoughts, that is doubtful. There is far too much evidence in the teachings of Christ the he is interested in good deeds or evil deeds as distinct from thoughts.

@fmf said
Morality, to my way of thinking, governs action and human interaction.

I don't subscribe to the notion of there being thoughtcrimes and immoral thoughts.

Such forms of supposed guilt belong in the realm of religion.

Thoughts?

I see thoughtcrimes more as a political concept eg 1984

Immoral thoughts are slightly different (thinking about your brother's wife for instance) which the government wouldn't care about but you brother might if thoughts became deeds.

I knew of a guys who slept with his girlfriend's Aunt - what a storm that caused !!

Do you have t be religious for thinking the wrong things that could seed betrayal?

I suppose theists must worry about this question, since their gods can allegedly read minds. For 'mere mortals', the question is somewhat moot, because we cannot.

You do not have to believe in God at all to believe that some thoughts are immoral.

If you were at a house party where an 8 year old girl was present, and a man in the room was having an explicit sexual fantasy about her in his head, thinking, "Wouldn't it be nice if I could get this girl alone..? Wouldn't it be nice if I was her father, and could be private with her...?" coupled with all of the terrible thoughts this entails, would you not say that those thoughts are sick, disordered, and immoral..?

I think the only way that you would not say that is if you believe that they are actually so sick as to be a condition which that person cannot control at all, thus not maing them immoral by reason of insanity.

But then we can just tone it down: a man actively fantasizing about raping another man's wife who is in the room -- no, not consensual sex, he is not interested in t hat, but by taking by force, as a form of revenge, and making the other man watch. Since this is a more normal set of sexual desire and desire for revenge is pretty normal, perhaps it is more understandable as just being immoral.

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Like Medullah stated, it is not helpful to think of ny of this in term of 'thoughtcrime.'

@medullah said
I see thoughtcrimes more as a political concept eg 1984

Yes, I've appropriated it from Orwell. Like doubleplusgoodthink, which I've had occasion to use from time to time. If you can't separate the term from politics, let's coin a new word for theists: "thoughtsin". For others, "thoughtcrimes" refers to the notion that thoughts can be immoral.

@philokalia said
Like Medullah stated, it is not helpful to think of ny of this in term of 'thoughtcrime.'

I disagree.

@philokalia said
If you were at a house party where an 8 year old girl was present, and a man in the room was having an explicit sexual fantasy about her in his head, thinking, "Wouldn't it be nice if I could get this girl alone..? Wouldn't it be nice if I was her father, and could be private with her...?" coupled with all of the terrible thoughts this entails, would you not say that those thoughts are sick, disordered, and immoral..?

No, I don't think so. Morality and people's moral compasses govern actions and interactions. If I don't know what the man's thoughts are, how can I declare them to be sick?

Immoral acts must have victims, do they not?

@fmf said
No, I don't think so. Morality and people's moral compasses govern actions and interactions. If I don't know what the man's thoughts are, how can I declare them to be sick?

We can never know another man's thoughts, but if a man confessed to fantasizing about pedophilia or about raping a woman in front of her husband, would you not call those thoughts depraved and immoral?

@fmf said
Immoral acts must have victims, do they not?

What's the rationale?

The non-harm principle is the only possible way to judge right/wrong - there are no things that are inherently negative as actions..?

Very spicy. I think a lot of people think like this today.

This is a very nihilistic approach.

@philokalia said
We can never know another man's thoughts, but if a man confessed to fantasizing about pedophilia or about raping a woman in front of her husband, would you not call those thoughts depraved and immoral?

I think talking about raping a woman to someone else would be immoral. Morality governs deeds not thoughts, to my way of thinking.

@philokalia said
What's the rationale?

The non-harm principle is the only possible way to judge right/wrong - there are no things that are inherently negative as actions..?

Negative in what way if they don't impact others?