1. Joined
    28 Oct '05
    Moves
    34587
    22 May '22 08:02
    @sonship said
    Men read the Bible. They see the words. They hear the words. But in their innermost spirit they cannot discern that it is God speaking. They hear only sounds. The heart is hardened perhaps. The conscience is foretified perhaps not wanting to touch authority, not wanting to be convicted of sin.
    Why is the punishment - for not finding your beliefs credible - such a stupendous level of demented violence?
  2. R
    Standard memberRemoved
    Joined
    03 Jan '13
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    13080
    22 May '22 08:482 edits
    @FMF

    There is more than a stupendous level of grace in that God became a man, in the form of a slave, and was punished by His own creatures hanging on a cross.

    Can a man read say 150 Psalms and only see "stupendous violence" of God?

    Can a man view the history of God's faithfulness though epochs and ages and only come away with one impression Why the punishment? I see only the judgment of punishment."

    I do see the judgment of punishment.
    But I also see the other manifestations of God in unfathomable patience, mercy,
    pardon, and forgiveness.

    I am not able tyo read of Jesus or read the whole Bible and see nothing but punishment. For sure I do see punishment of judgment againsts sin. But that is not the only thing I see. I see it in proportion to other themes about God in the Scripture.

    I see that He who knew no sin God made sin that we might become the righteousness of God in Him. I see God going to the extreme extent that men may be saved from their sins.
  3. R
    Standard memberRemoved
    Joined
    03 Jan '13
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    13080
    22 May '22 08:504 edits
    Cain, had no sense of his crime when he murdered his brother. He had not the least sense of having done anything evil. ALL he saw was that the punishment God assigned to discipline him was greater than he thought was fair.

    "When you till the ground it will no longer yield its strength to you. You will be a fugative and a wanderer on the earth." (Gen. 4:12)

    Cains ONLY response was that this was more than he could bear -

    "And Cain said to Jehovah, My punishment is greater than I can bear. " (v.13)

    NO repentance, though available.
    NO turning to ask for forgiveness.
    NO sense of having transgressed God and his brother Abel.
    NO conscience about his need to be reconciled to the righteous God.

    He had only this complaint. "The punishment is greater than I can endure."
    And this was not eternal punishment.
    But it showed the heart of fallen man.
    That God's is transgressed and a fellow man is damaged is not important.
    Only that God is wrong to judge, to extract justice, or even to apply correction of discipline.

    "What have you done? The voice of your brother's blood is crying out to Me from the ground. And now you are cursed dfrom the ground, which has opened its mouth to receive upr brpther's blood from ypur hands. When you tyill the ghorund it will no longer yeild its stength to you. You will be a fugitiver and a wonderer on the earth."

    Any sense of repentance with Cain? Any sense to seek God's forgiveness for his sins? No. He only complains that he is punished.

    "Can said to Jeohvah, My punishment is greater than I can bear. "

    Sinning does not matter.
    Offending his Creator is no big deal.
    Killing his brother is no important concern.
    Only that there is punishment - only that means anything to him.

    I think sayng " Your God and your Bible have nothing but punishment, punishment, punishment. That is all your God figure is about - punishment." is myopic.

    I see also God's righteousness and God's salvation. And I don't see this as a rigged absurd game. I spend at least equal time to contemplate what God had done that we might be saved from our sins.
  4. PenTesting
    Joined
    04 Apr '04
    Moves
    247831
    23 May '22 02:20
    @sonship said
    Cain, had no sense of his crime when he murdered his brother. He had not the least sense of having done anything evil.
    Utter rubbish.
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