Originally posted by Rajk999I thought you said your beliefs come from the mouth of Christ?
NO.
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
(Hebrews 6:4-6 KJV)
It seems your most fanatical beliefs come from the mouths of apostles.
Originally posted by Rajk999It's certainly a good thing that you love them "as you love yourself".
Is it any wonder that Christians are the most selfish, greedy, worldly, crooked people on earth. Their religion preaches that its ok to sin becuase they will not be cast into the lake of fire.
Yeah, I know. Not so much, eh?
Originally posted by Rajk999Serving as an illustration of your own point?
You claim that ALL who accept Christ with their mouth will be saved.
So you are saying ALL.
I am showing where the Bible says that SOME who accept Christ will not get forgiveness. They will therefore not get eternal life... SOME.
SOME will pass through fire, Yes.. NOT ALL.
There are SOME who will accept Christ with their mouth and NOT BE GIVEN ET ...[text shortened]... AL LIFE. They would not be saved.
You should try to accept all that is preached in the Bible.
That's a nice twist, though a tad unusual.
Originally posted by Pudgenik
Our Father who is in heaven,
Holy is your name,
Your kingdom come,
Your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread,
And forgive us our trespasses,
As we forgive those who trespass against us,
And lead us not into temptation,
But deliver us from evil, Amen.
This is the response the Lord told me to give you.
Our Father who is in heaven,
Holy is your name,
Your kingdom come,
Your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread,
And forgive us our trespasses,
As we forgive those who trespass against us,
And lead us not into temptation,
But deliver us from evil, Amen.
This is the response the Lord told me to give you.
But nothing in this response has anything whatsoever to do with the concept of Purgatory.
So we may give an enthusiastic AMEN to the passage.
But it says nothing at all about Purgatory.
If you would argue Purgatory from this passage you would have to do some interpretation to show where you see Purgatory in those words.
Originally posted by Rajk999It is righteous of God to redeem us eternally when we believe into Christ. It is no longer a matter of just His kindness alone or mercy alone. It is the righteous thing for Him to do to save us eternally.
Its not my short attention span. Its the dozen or so times you 'assume' and say 'I think this is correct' or 'I believe this to be so'.
Im not interested in your guess work. Christ words were clear.
So Paul wrote - "But now apart from the law, the righteousness of God has been manifested ..." (Romans 3:21)
The Law and the Prophets bore witness that God's rightness - God's righteousness would be manifested "apart from the law". Look again.
"But now apart from the law, the righteousness of God has been manifested, witness being borne to it by the Law and the Prophets." (Romans 3:21)
But what it this RIGHTEOUSNESS of God which has now been manifested ? It is that God is bound by Himself to save eternally all those who believe into Christ. Look at it again with the next sentence.
"But now apart from the law, the righteousness of God has been manifested, witness being borne to it by the Law and the Prophets; Even the righteousness of God through the faith of Jesus Christ to all those who believe,..."
If God will not eternally save me now He would be unrighteous.
But righteousness is the very foundation of His throne:
"Righteousness and justice are the foundation of Your throne ..." (Psalm 89:14)
God's righteousness is the foundation of His authority and if He should violate His righteousness the universe would collapse. Righteousness and justice are the foundation of His throne. And it is righteousness that He should now save eternally those who have believed into His Son.
Whether I perish now is not the most important thing. It is that God's throne, God's integrity, God's reputation, and God's righteousness be upheld. That is what is at stake.
If I now go to the eternal punishment after believing in my heart the risen Jesus and confessing with my mouth Jesus as Lord, is not the most important matter. What is much more important is that God's righteousness is manifested.
I can go to God boldly and say -
"Lord God, whether you like me today or do not like me today, it is RIGHTEOUS for you to keep your promise that I have been saved for eternity from eternal judgment. You would not have your claim on both me and on Jesus. If Jesus is the propitiation for my sins then it is the righteousness of Yourself which is at stake if you now change Your mind. "
The death of Jesus Christ was the believer's FULL PAYMENT of His debt towards God of his sins. And the resurrected Christ before God is the receipt of that full payment.
He was raised for our justification. His resurrection is the receipt of the debt having been PAID in full:
Romans 4:24b,25 - " ... who believe on Him who has raised Jesus our Lord from the dead, Who was delivered for our offenses and was raised for our justification."
Having become the believer's Father He can correct and discipline His growing sons. But He is bound by His own righteousness to see to it that they are eternally redeemed and have eternal life.
"If we confess our sins, He is faithful and RIGHTEOUS ... to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness." (1 John 1:9)
All acts of sin from before I believed [He] " will by no means remember any more." (Hebrews 8:12 comp Jeremiah 30:34)
In the process of His developing His son, He is faithful and RIGHTEOUS to forgive them and cleanse every future sin away as we confess them.
Oh as a Christian, you will confess your sins sooner or latter.
Originally posted by sonshipThe redeemed believer's boldness before God should be like this:
Whether I perish now is not the most important thing. It is that God's throne, God's integrity, God's reputation, and God's righteousness be upheld. That is what is at stake.
If I now go to the eternal punishment after believing in my heart the risen Jesus and confessing with my mouth Jesus as Lord, is not the most important matter. What is much more imp ...[text shortened]... in away as we confess them.
Oh as a Christian, you will confess your sins sooner or latter.
We can boldly tell God "If You don't deal with me according to Your righteousness, Your throne will be shaken. The important issue is not whether I shall be saved or perish; it is whether You will allow the foundation of Your throne to be shaken. God for me to perish is a secondary matter. The primary matter is the righteous foundation of Your throne. God, I remind you of Your righteousness. Christ has died for my sins and Christ is now at Your right hand as proof that You have received His payment for all of my debts. According to Your righteousness You have no choice except to save me. Christ has died. You have accepted His death and have resurrected Him from the dead, and now You are legally bound to forgive me. No matter what my condition is You are bound to forgive me."