Originally posted by SuzianneBeing created or born as eternal beings, we will never die. The torment is what we bring upon ourselves. In our own free will, we choose to "have a heart" or be callous of others. It is the love that lives in us. If we love, then there will be nothing to worry about.All these verses teach of eternal beings.As eternal as the human soul may be, how much more terrible judgement would the final death of the soul be to us? Why is "eternal torment" necessary?
In my faith, in my thinking, if you love, God is already present. What is God?
Satan was cast from heaven because he rejected God, he rejected love. There is no love in Satan. Hell is a torment, it is within the Word, but those who are there will never receive God, but they will always be aware of God.
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Originally posted by SuzianneOff hand I cannot think of the phrase "eternal torture" or "eternal torment".
I do not claim to be 'proficient in the Greek'. Unfortunately, of those here who claim to be, a few clearly aren't. While some are clearly more proficient than others, there are some who have no concept of what may constitute 'popular usage' of Greek in Judea at the time.
Can we just take the term 'eternal torment' and guess what it means from our own ...[text shortened]... o occurrence of the phrase 'eternal torment' OR 'eternal punishment'. I think that says enough.
The phrase "eternal punishment" however is in Matthew 25:46. compare with verse 41.
"And these shall go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life" (v. 46).
Now in Luke 16:19-31 the rich man in Hades (Hell) in a place of punishment used the word "anguish" -
" ... I am in anguish in this flame." (Luke 16:24b)
If we assume that this was a never ending punishment then there seems the prospect that the "anguish" is also never ending.
The fact that the lost man is able to converse with any sense of communicative ability without mere screaming suggests that his "anguish" is somehow supernaturally tuned or regulated by God.
No one sitting in a real flame enveloping their body, I think, is able to converse with the coherence that the rich man displays.
Perhaps I make too much of this. But it appears to me that God has regulated how much discomfort the lost man is able to feel. If we wonder about this we notice that in the book of Daniel the three Hebrew young men were cast into a furnace of fire and not even their cloths bore the marks of heat.
God can regulate what a person experiences and feels in this heat of a flame.
The rich man conversed, discussed in his discomfort a few things with Abraham who he could see, about his condition and his brothers. Yet he was in anguish.
I do not suggest that anyone be so curious that they become unsaved and go to that place to see if the result for them will be the same, or better, or worse. The clear message is that this punishment should be avoided through God's offer of salvation.
Originally posted by yoctobyteAware, yes!!! Eternal separation, as you put it, is Hell. Have you ever been deeply in love? Then have the person torn from you? As a sudden death?
What are your thoughts on 'eternal separation'. Are you aware? The question is not a test, just curious about your view.
I do not anguish from those who have died on this earth. Maybe it sounds strange to you. The Spirit lives in me (I am not trying to brag or anything so stupid as that) and I am aware spiritually.
I have experienced the 'Dark Night of the Soul', it is not something I would wish on my worst enemy. It was needed for my spiritual growth.
You are in love with God, you are deep in the knowledge of His Son. Your soul is nearly spotless and that is good. The Apostles experienced the dark night of the soul when Jesus was taken from them, in the garden.
The Apostles loved Jesus. But there are monsters (both men and women) who are in this world. Evil lives in them, they will make you sick just hearing of them. If in the end, if these people continue on the destructive path they are on, they will be in hell.
Remember, there is always hope. All things are possible in God.
Originally posted by KellyJayIt is those that believe the lie of Satan that will be tormented in the Lake of Fire. Those that believe Christ pass form death unto life.
Everyone who sins will have their sins paid for one way or another.
Yes, there will be those that believe who will without a doubt be punished
the same way.
Kelly
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
John 3:16 NKJV)
“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.
(John 5:24 NKJV)
Originally posted by KellyJayBut not all "unbelievers" will be punished ~ it depends on their sins. Is that the point you're making?
Everyone who sins will have their sins paid for one way or another.
Yes, there will be those that believe who will without a doubt be punished
the same way.
Kelly
Originally posted by sonshipMaybe this will help:
Off hand I cannot think of the phrase "eternal torture" or "eternal torment".
The phrase [b]"eternal punishment" however is in Matthew 25:46. compare with verse 41.
"And these shall go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life" (v. 46).
Now in Luke 16:19-31 the rich man in Hades (Hell) in a place ...[text shortened]... . The clear message is that this punishment should be avoided through God's offer of salvation.[/b]
The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
...
And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.
(Revelation 20:10, 15 NKJV)